politics nearby

[jay]

Getting in to work wasn't much of a problem... the place is half-empty, lots of people must be telecommunting. Cars were shunted off to the side, looped around Space Camp, and then back across Moffett Blvd. to the Ames side entrances. There were only 2 cars in line in front of me, and a very bored guard waved me through without picking my car for random search.

I was a bit annoyed on the way in that someone had tied yellow ribbons to the freeway overpass over US 101, leading in to work. I resisted the impulse to pull over and remove them... going to work is problematic enough without having to inadvertently pass through a pro-war exhibition en route.

Comments

[hopeforyou.livejournal.com]

Brian, the yellow ribbons aren't pro-war -- they're pro-troops. Basically from the song "Tie a Yellow Ribbon Around the Old Oak Tree", an old song hoping that loved ones will return home safe from the war.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

I certainly hope that casualties (on both sides) are minimized, and that our troops return home safely. That said, I don't support what they're currently doing abroad... as far as I'm concerned, the US alliance forces are the bad guys over there, not liberators.

[nolly.livejournal.com]

Our troops aren't the bad guys. The Powers That Be wh send the there, are at best misguided, but the ordinary soldiers and sailors don't deserve the blame here. Yeah, maybe if they all refused to go, that would be a sufficient wake-up call to the higher echelons. But your average 18-22 year old grunt just isn't going to take that sort of initiative. Not when they've been trained to follow orders. Not when they have spouses and small children depending on them. Not when this is what they're counting on to train them for a job, or pay for college. Not when they have no way of knowing how many others would join them. Support the troops. Work for peace.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Hmm... granted, they're volunteers, not reluctant draftees. Media coverage has likened the current attacks on Iraq to the German blitzkrieg of 1940, in its rapidity and ferocity. So by analogy, I wonder how a Frenchman or Belgian have viewed the oncoming German forces, back then... would they have just shrugged off the troops as "just following orders" and blamed The Powers That Be?

[geekchick]

Godwin invoked in four easy steps, woohoo.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Easy, because the analogy is (for once) actually relevant...

[geekchick]

You know that I agree that we should not be in Iraq, but I find your generalizations about the "bad guys" and comparisons to Nazis to be disturbing at best.

[nolly.livejournal.com]

I didn't have time to follow up on this sooner. Here is a bit of writing (not mine) that perhaps clarifies the difference between supporting the troops and supporting the war. See, for me, it's not about supporting a bunch of nameless grunts. It's about supporting Peeny and Isaac and Rachel's dad. And Halston and Hayden's dad. And Laura's husband. And Jessica's fiancé. And my HS classmate Lee. And my preacher's children who are in the Navy. And all the other people I know who are deployed or could be, and all the people who work with them. It means wanting them home safe. It means wanting peace.

[geekchick]

I deleted my previous reply to this because nolly said what I was thinking much better than I did (so no need to go reply to my deleted reply and quote it in its entirety here) .

[7patches.livejournal.com]

I interpreted the original song to describe someone coming home after a prison term, not from a war. It uses phrases like "I've done my time" and "I've been set free". I may be wrong. It doesn't matter. The sentiment is welcome for someone departed, when they might be afraid that people don't want them back. Since that song came out, I have seen it used for missing persons, hostages, and military veterans.

I agree that the soldiers are not primarily to blame for the daily events of the war to which they have been sent. They are in a position of facing imprisonment if they do not cooperate. But I feel like all of America is being held hostage when our citizens are "put in harm's way". It reminds me that the excuse Britian used to invade Granada was that some British citizens were in danger.

The bombing of the WTC was a surprise to us, and I expect the respose to be different from a situation where our military leaders (I hate to say "we") choose to initiate violence in another country.

[geekchick]

I was a bit annoyed on the way in that someone had tied yellow ribbons to the freeway overpass over US 101, leading in to work. I resisted the impulse to pull over and remove them... going to work is problematic enough without having to inadvertently pass through a pro-war exhibition en route.

Pro-war?? How exactly do you figure that? Feh.

Go read this and think about it for a few minutes, eh? To quote:

"I could say a lot more about this, but to my mind, you can protest the war, and at the same time, hang a yellow ribbon in the hope that the troops come home safely. Hoping for our folks to come home safe isn't at all pro-war, to my mind. Writing a letter saying, "Hey, hope you guys are doing okay" doesn't imply you hope anyone else (like the Iraqis) are being blown to smithereens."

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Pro-war?? How exactly do you figure that? Feh.

In my mind, "supporting the troops" equals supporting their mission as well as hoping for their personal safety.

[geekchick]

Then I suppose we'll agree to disagree on this, because I don't believe hoping for the safe return of as many of our troops as possible equates to supporting the reason they were sent there in the first place.

Out of curiosity, how would you react if someone tore down anti-war signs placed in the same location?

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

I personally would rather not be confronted by *either* side while waiting to go to the office... I'd rather see any antiwar signs and the ribbons both removed from the overpass.

[geekchick]

Just asking because it didn't seem like you were objecting to *any* display in favor of either side, it instead seemed like your main objection to the display was that it was something you interpreted as "pro-war".

[cathouse-blues.livejournal.com]

Point of order: Yellow ribbons are a show of support for POWs - not support for the war. Now, if you *still* find them annoying, then you're not the man I thought you were.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

In that context, it correlates with 7patches comment about hostages (i.e., 1980) and released prisoners. A show of support for POWs doesn't bother me at all -- as far as I'm concerned, they could hang a POW/MIA flag next to the ribbons, if that was their intention, and that'd also be commendable.

However, these ribbons apparently have been there a couple of days, prior to the seizure of US POWs yesterday, so I'm dubious that these ribbons were in response to that event.

In any case, I only claim to be myself...

[cathouse-blues.livejournal.com]

Brian, I'm sorry. I've been reading over the other comments to this this post of yours, and...I'm sure you'll understand my discomfort with continuing any sort of friendship with someone who can so easily compare this invasion of Iraq (whether I agree with it or not) with the German assault on Europe in WWII. I find the comparison distasteful to the point of nauseousness.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

I see that you've removed me from your list... sorry that it wound up this way, but it's probably unavoidable. If not now, then in the weeks-to-come. Our views on this conflict, and its causes, are just too different.

Good luck in your upcoming move, in any case.

[cathouse-blues.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

And (in lieu of commenting in your own journal) also best wishes to those dear to you, especially given the situation with your mother and grandma. That's heart-wrenching... I really hope that things are better with you (and yours) in a week. And please see a doctor if you keep throwing up blood...