Getting soft...
Apr. 16th, 2003 01:00 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
jayFeh. Once upon a time, I frequented Usenet and local mailing lists, was involved in various discussions, and knew how to defend myself. Ideas were filtered several times before posting. Weaknesses were studied, anticipating possible challenges or lines-of-attack. Nits that could be seized on by net.nuisances were carefully combed out, especially spelling. Statements were personally qualified to avoid generalizations, sometimes redundantly-so in the same sentence.
Then came LJ... and I've gotten soft, and sloppy. Not on my toes, not as careful about attack-angles or spelling (or missing clauses!). After all, the folks on one's LJ reader list are called friends, and they tend to be a bit more sympathetic, supportive and are self-selected.
But on Usenet and broad mailing lists, it's still harsh out there... not only are the random readers not my friends, they may be overtly hostile, looking for opportunities to throw scorn and snideness in my direction. I've re-learned this the hard way over the past week or so. If I'm going to spend significant time and energy in those forums, I have to get back in my older, harder mindset.
Then came LJ... and I've gotten soft, and sloppy. Not on my toes, not as careful about attack-angles or spelling (or missing clauses!). After all, the folks on one's LJ reader list are called friends, and they tend to be a bit more sympathetic, supportive and are self-selected.
But on Usenet and broad mailing lists, it's still harsh out there... not only are the random readers not my friends, they may be overtly hostile, looking for opportunities to throw scorn and snideness in my direction. I've re-learned this the hard way over the past week or so. If I'm going to spend significant time and energy in those forums, I have to get back in my older, harder mindset.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
Re: A "CLUE" for you too
Date: 2003-04-16 10:44 am (UTC)From my vantage point I am not seeing behaviors from Brian that I associate with what might be called "striving to learn" but rather map in my experience to "trying to get attention in ways I find unappealing."
Obviously, Mileage Varies all over the place.
Re: A "CLUE" for you too
Date: 2003-04-16 11:04 am (UTC)Re: A "CLUE" for you too
Date: 2003-04-16 11:30 am (UTC)Letting a child urinate on the living room carpet and doing nothing seems a poor parenting choice to me, but then I have no children of my own, yet.
Dumb question: why did you choose to reward
Re: A "CLUE" for you too
Date: 2003-04-16 11:42 am (UTC)1) I wouldn't let her (I've only had girl kids to deal with so far!) pee on the carpet with no consequence. That's actually destructive, and would require a different course of action than, for instance, "mere" inappropriate shouting and yelling (which this more closely resembles).
2) Not a dumb question at all. At least part of the answer is: because I erroneously interpreted his comments as intending to educate or change Brian's behavior through his words. As I have found (in private e-mail; he seems to think that Brian deleted his comment and the subsequent thread--which is patently untrue, since we're conversing in it now), in fact his comment was simply intended to serve as a "I won't take any more of this BS" notice. If his intent was to effect change through communication, then theoretically if I provide better communications tools, then the community at large will be more harmonious and a better place for ME as well as everyone else.
The rest of the answer is: I'm no good at ignoring Allegra's bad behavior, either! Working on it. :^)
Speaking of whom--gotta run and get her from school.
Re: A "CLUE" for you too
Date: 2003-04-16 11:54 am (UTC)2] "If his intent was to effect change through communication, then theoretically if I provide better communications tools, then the community at large will be more harmonious and a better place for ME." At least you are an honest busybody. :-)
I'm curious: did you make your personal motivation for intervening clear from the start or was it presented more in the language of "bettering the community?" I am not
Before you ask: my motivation in all of this is curiosity.
Re: A "CLUE" for you too
Date: 2003-04-16 01:50 pm (UTC)In which case, it seems to me that this thread would be more appropriately discussed in a general forum, or in private email, rather than in my journal...
Re: A "CLUE" for you too
Date: 2003-04-16 03:46 pm (UTC)Re: A "CLUE" for you too
Date: 2003-04-16 04:01 pm (UTC)Re: A "CLUE" for you too
Date: 2003-04-19 07:10 pm (UTC)No. When "voluble yelling and emotional outbursts" are used as a means of getting attention, the appropriate (in fact, the only EFFECTIVE) response is to ignore them. They can certainly be destructive in their own way, especially when repeated over time.
What I was trying to say was that active PHYSICAL destruction like your example of a small child peeing on the carpet requires a DIFFERENT approach. The key there is to respond to the action with an appropriate consequence (having them clean it up might be part of it for instance), and not to give in to the temptation to "make a scene" about it, which would only reinforce the notion that such behavior will get them attention. In actual practice, this is much easier said than done.
Regarding my personal motivation: You can see quite easily for yourself what I wrote above and come to your own conclusions. There was no communication on this topic prior to that post. I claimed no "community will," labeled what I had to say as coming from my own experience, and even stated outright that he was free to ignore what I had to say, as it was indeed unsolicited.
Re: A "CLUE" for you too
Date: 2003-04-16 01:44 pm (UTC)Sounds like an excellent strategy...
Re: A "CLUE" for you too
Date: 2003-04-16 01:22 pm (UTC)And you've written more about my communication habits lately, both here and on sfbay-poly, than I have. So, I might wonder who is really the one that is attention seeking, here? You could have simply registered a disagreement and dropped it, but have instead climbed on a soapbox...
Re: A "CLUE" for you too
Date: 2003-04-16 04:05 pm (UTC)So to promote your own safety, it seems you place disproportionate risk on other people without their consent as they try to interpret your words meaningfully. I can understand why you would feel defensive about this.
Re: A "CLUE" for you too
Date: 2003-04-16 04:40 pm (UTC)digcomment.Since you already think I'm a busybody, it clearly won't hurt my reputation in that department to say that I think that it's in very poor taste to continue to whack at someone in their own journal AFTER you've already agreed to move it elsewhere.
Re: A "CLUE" for you too
Date: 2003-04-16 05:16 pm (UTC)Other aspects of the discussion I may decide to respond to here or not.
Sorry about the confusion.