rotational greetings...

[jay]

Happy solstice, for those who celebrate it.... it doesn't work for me, per se, but I respect the choices of others to follow their own spiritual paths.
...
A useful link for those inclined to planetary movement-based holidays (solstice, equinoxes, etc) is here, with tables of dates and UTC times of each from 1992-2020.

Comments

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm certainly not a pagan myself, or particularly pagan-sympathetic. I'd like to find some way to wish others with different belief-structures their happiness, while making it clear that I don't subscribe to that particular belief-structure myself. Someone replying "happy solstice!" back to me in return would probably draw a blank stare.

For that matter, I'm ambivalent about Christmas trees, given how/where they originated. And much secular emphasis on gift-giving seems driven by economics and consumerism, not contemplation or faith.

I doubt I'd call you, or someone else, on the carpet if I thought it appropriate. Too direct and blunt and conflicting of a communication style for me to feel comfortable jumping in that way with a friend, or even a sweetie.

[princeofwands.livejournal.com]

I doubt I'd call you, or someone else, on the carpet if I thought it appropriate. Too direct and blunt and conflicting of a communication style for me to feel comfortable jumping in that way with a friend, or even a sweetie.

The problem with asserting this position over and over and over again is that it leaves us to take the subtle, indirect and deniable comments that from someone inclined toward more direct communication as being critical or judgemental.

[princeofwands.livejournal.com]

Erm, ick. That came out of my editing quite badly.

What I meant to say was more like:

The problem with asserting this position over and over and over again is that it leaves us to take the subtle, indirect and deniable comments from you, that from someone inclined to more direct communication would be neutral, as being critical or judgmental.

[tenacious-snail.livejournal.com]

bingo!

Because Jay is usually indirect about expressing criticism, it is plausible to think that a comment that would be neutral from someone else is a criticism from him.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Actually, given that the deniability makes it possible conversely for others to take things as non-negative or not confrontational, it leaves room for face-saving by both sides. IMO a feature, not a bug.

[princeofwands.livejournal.com]

The wrinkle in that plan is the assertion that none of what you say be taken as negative or confrontational. Sadly that belief doen't hold up with your statements, or the (local) community in which you communicate.

In trying to straddle the middle, you appear to be failing both sides.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

I may be mistaken at times by others -- in *both* directions. That's part of the cost of leaving others room.

[dangerpudding.livejournal.com]

Just as food for thought - why is a work situation different in this? Why might you think that I'd take criticism well in one context and not another? (I use myself as an example because, well, I do deal with you in both contexts, and would hate to think that you're withholding criticism in either.)

Also, y'know, sometime I'd rather lose the face and keep the friend. It's ok to be wrong. It's not so ok to never know if your comments mean that you wish I'd do something differently, or that you're actually ok with things.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Bingo -- it isn't different, in that respect. I often withhold criticism, but try to express praise, even if indirectly. Especially in a byzantine government agency, the power games and politics mean that one has to be very careful to leave someone a way out, or not attack overtly -- one may be applying to that person ten years later for research funding.

Watching old "Yes, Minister" episodes could be useful, if exaggerated somewhat.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Confrontation burns bridges and can lead to violence. If there is no way to non-confrontationally, indirectly signal disagreement, the only remaining path for me is to say nothing (and fume, or vent to others). As a side effect, others trying to interpret me may at times impute criticism where there was none intended, or conversely be oblivious to my intended red-flags. That's an annoying side effect, but I view it as necessary overhead.

[trinker.livejournal.com]

Um.

I think you're conflating "neo-pagan" with "non-JCI", here.

*Lots* of cultures celebrate the Solistice, not just neo-pagans.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Hm... okay, and I admit to being ignorant of those other worldviews or faiths. It isn't something I see in Islam or Judaism...

[trinker.livejournal.com]

*nod*

Having knowledge of JCI practices gives one an impression of having a broad religious knowledge, but on a practical note, it's a lot like knowing three Indo-European languages and feeling that that gives one a broad knowledge of languages in general.

JCI holidays tend to be commemorations of specific points of religious history, but a lot of non-JCI religions have "cycle of the year" celebrations.