Brian's darker side
Amongst various discussions of "when/if to ask for something" "when/if to complain when hurt or uncomfortable", or "when/if to approach individuals or groups in social settings," two entries ago is another, untouched onion-layer. Although sensed somehow by ![[profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
therealjae and clairaide...
One of my guiding social principles is "Avoid actions which incur current or future obligations or debts, unless balanced by similar on the other side." I am fiercely control-averse. In the workplace, I am either a lone researcher, or a project leader. With the lightest of supervision, or none. The prospect of being anyone's deputy or assistant immediately squicks me. I'd rather sit outside, lurk in the forest and wait for an opportunity to challenge for a leadership role than accept a "beta" role in some effort. I want to hold the reins, at least as far as my own efforts go. Freedom of action.
But social obligations and debts constrain freedom of action. If I owe someone a favor which they can call in to meet some need of theirs, then I lose some control over my future actions. Potentially. Or risk unethical behavior (dishonoring my obligations). Unless the other person or group already owes me similarly, and the debts cancel.
If I unilaterally inconvenience or adversely affect a person or group, I owe them recompence, and lose another tidbit of control. They will then have a hold over me in the future, whether strong or tenuous. Much of my avoid-bothering-others behavior is *not* driven by some oh-I'm-so-unworthy complex on my part, it is driven by "I don't trust you enough to give you any kind of hold over me." Or even "I'm not sure I whether I will want to associate with [person or group] in the future, so I'm not going to incur any favors-owed to them." Done self-deprecatingly, and with a smile (to avoid disturbing the other party, and thereby defeating my own intentions). The underlying arrogance on my part is buried several layers down.
If I do think I might want to associate with some person or group in the future, I'm likely to try to build up a "positive ledger" of favors-done or assistance rendered or backs-rubbed or etc... so I can relax and enjoy their company in the future, without worrying that I'm ceding them any future control over my actions. If I then do a favor for someone, it will be because I like that person and choose to help, not because I'm in their debt (social or otherwise). Maintaining the freedom to choose is vitally important to me.
So much of the turn-the-other-cheek, don't complain in public, and subverting my own needs in social spaces is motivated thusly -- by trying to make everything smoother and happier, true, but also my my rigorous avoidance of incurring favors or obligations to others, with the corresponding loss of future independence.
Conversely, if I'm willing to ask someone for a favor, or accept one offered, that person is actually (unbeknownst to them) being paid a high compliment (in my own twisted way). Likewise if I volunteer to do favors for a given individual or group -- it often indicates a receptivity on my part to longer-term association or friendship.
But then there's the issue of *asking*, of stating my personal needs to someone in the hope that some subset will be met. I see asking as functionally equivalent to begging. Loss of control... I'm making myself vulnerable, and I can't control the outcome. I may as well be prostrating myself at someone's feet if I ask someone if they would go to lunch with me, or rub my back. Or dance. Once I ask for something, the recipient can twist me around their proverbial little finger, leave me dangling, and I'm powerless. And the outcomes are all bad, in some way -- if rejected, I'm hurt. But if the request is granted, now I have incurred a new obligation-debt which will give that person leverage over me in the future.
So in my view, unilaterally asking to have one of my needs met results in either rejection, or some loss of future independence... so I don't do it very often. And then only with those that I explicitly trust to not abuse the leverage in the future, and/or with whom I have comparable cancelling favors-owed... unless I'm in over-my-head in a situation or otherwise desperate.
But multilateral statements of needs are OK, as long as all sides are free to decide what others' needs they can fulfill. If I state my needs to Y, and at the same time Y states their needs to me, the control issues are balanced. Neither of us becomes a supplicant or burden to the other. Likewise in situations involving three or more people...
So, aside from trying to make nice and avoid conflicts, there is a darker side to my reluctance to ask unilaterally, or immediately complain or interrupt others -- my aversion to yielding any control over my actions, or general discomfort with others having any usable leverage over me.
therealjae and clairaide...One of my guiding social principles is "Avoid actions which incur current or future obligations or debts, unless balanced by similar on the other side." I am fiercely control-averse. In the workplace, I am either a lone researcher, or a project leader. With the lightest of supervision, or none. The prospect of being anyone's deputy or assistant immediately squicks me. I'd rather sit outside, lurk in the forest and wait for an opportunity to challenge for a leadership role than accept a "beta" role in some effort. I want to hold the reins, at least as far as my own efforts go. Freedom of action.
But social obligations and debts constrain freedom of action. If I owe someone a favor which they can call in to meet some need of theirs, then I lose some control over my future actions. Potentially. Or risk unethical behavior (dishonoring my obligations). Unless the other person or group already owes me similarly, and the debts cancel.
If I unilaterally inconvenience or adversely affect a person or group, I owe them recompence, and lose another tidbit of control. They will then have a hold over me in the future, whether strong or tenuous. Much of my avoid-bothering-others behavior is *not* driven by some oh-I'm-so-unworthy complex on my part, it is driven by "I don't trust you enough to give you any kind of hold over me." Or even "I'm not sure I whether I will want to associate with [person or group] in the future, so I'm not going to incur any favors-owed to them." Done self-deprecatingly, and with a smile (to avoid disturbing the other party, and thereby defeating my own intentions). The underlying arrogance on my part is buried several layers down.
If I do think I might want to associate with some person or group in the future, I'm likely to try to build up a "positive ledger" of favors-done or assistance rendered or backs-rubbed or etc... so I can relax and enjoy their company in the future, without worrying that I'm ceding them any future control over my actions. If I then do a favor for someone, it will be because I like that person and choose to help, not because I'm in their debt (social or otherwise). Maintaining the freedom to choose is vitally important to me.
So much of the turn-the-other-cheek, don't complain in public, and subverting my own needs in social spaces is motivated thusly -- by trying to make everything smoother and happier, true, but also my my rigorous avoidance of incurring favors or obligations to others, with the corresponding loss of future independence.
Conversely, if I'm willing to ask someone for a favor, or accept one offered, that person is actually (unbeknownst to them) being paid a high compliment (in my own twisted way). Likewise if I volunteer to do favors for a given individual or group -- it often indicates a receptivity on my part to longer-term association or friendship.
But then there's the issue of *asking*, of stating my personal needs to someone in the hope that some subset will be met. I see asking as functionally equivalent to begging. Loss of control... I'm making myself vulnerable, and I can't control the outcome. I may as well be prostrating myself at someone's feet if I ask someone if they would go to lunch with me, or rub my back. Or dance. Once I ask for something, the recipient can twist me around their proverbial little finger, leave me dangling, and I'm powerless. And the outcomes are all bad, in some way -- if rejected, I'm hurt. But if the request is granted, now I have incurred a new obligation-debt which will give that person leverage over me in the future.
So in my view, unilaterally asking to have one of my needs met results in either rejection, or some loss of future independence... so I don't do it very often. And then only with those that I explicitly trust to not abuse the leverage in the future, and/or with whom I have comparable cancelling favors-owed... unless I'm in over-my-head in a situation or otherwise desperate.
But multilateral statements of needs are OK, as long as all sides are free to decide what others' needs they can fulfill. If I state my needs to Y, and at the same time Y states their needs to me, the control issues are balanced. Neither of us becomes a supplicant or burden to the other. Likewise in situations involving three or more people...
So, aside from trying to make nice and avoid conflicts, there is a darker side to my reluctance to ask unilaterally, or immediately complain or interrupt others -- my aversion to yielding any control over my actions, or general discomfort with others having any usable leverage over me.
no subject
Whereas, some of my deep darker aspects are revealed in the fact that I feel like a natural right-hand woman. I get into terrible trouble for being bossy, but in fact, I prefer to be the trusted lieutenant whose advice and thoughts are always seriously considered. Of course, there's an inconsistency, because I will not accept anyone taking an action which seems to me very likely to lead to significant harm or adverse affects. Or maybe, that's a necessary break in hierarchy. Oh, but I don't like hierarchy overall - I'd prefer there to be one other person whom we all trust to be the leader when a single leader is absolutely necessary, and everyone to be operating on equal terms for the rest of the time.
I'm not sure that I'm as clear about this as you seem to be about your feelings!
Conversely, if I'm willing to ask someone for a favor, or accept one offered, that person is actually (unbeknownst to them) being paid a high compliment (in my own twisted way). Likewise if I volunteer to do favors for a given individual or group -- it often indicates a receptivity on my part to longer-term association or friendship.
no subject
All that. Just that. You described exactly how I am about this. I'm happiest with my supervisor-graduate student relationships that are like that (where they don't rely on me to make their decisions, but they consider everything I say very carefully before making them themselves), and it's the role I feel I can play in the political arena, too.
I don't think this is a bad thing, really -- the bad part is just how much I *suck* at any other kind of role. If I'm actually the one in charge, who has to take responsibility in name, too, I'm so uncomfortable that I never get accustomed to it no matter how long it takes. If I'm part of a committee with someone else in charge, or in a subservient role in a duo, I can get lazy and not pull my weight. The only other power arrangement I'm happy with is one of complete equality (as in my relationship with my academic co-author).
I'm okay with my preferences in this respect, but sometimes you have to be in situations that run counter to them. I do wish they didn't handicap me so much as to what I can do in my job, in my life, in the world.
-J
no subject
And I've always thought that you were the dominant, decisive member of your household triad.
no subject
As for life in my household ... I can be decisive if I need to be, and if it takes being dominant to get things done, I'll do it with gritted teeth. But it's not my preferred role. I'm happiest when tasks are divided up equally, and everybody knows what they're supposed to do, and everybody can be trusted to get those things done.
-J
no subject
Really? I've only seen you in person at APC6, but you didn't seem bossy then. Lively, energetic, engaging, yes.
Rather than a break, perhaps it reflects staunchly-held principles? I wouldn't accept such an action from someone, either... but part of that for me would be simple resistance-to-orders, in addition to objection to the action's own adverse effects.
And I prefer non-hierarchical organizations, likewise... but if someone else is then picked as the leader, I'm likely to reflexively undermine and subvert their authority, unless/until they either drive me away or convince me that they have superior qualifications.