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jayRecently, a local mailing list has been discussing workshops and events requiring secrecy about goings-on. HAI workshops have been often cited, although there have been others. Thread-drift has taken it into a debate on gender-balancing, with the practice being questioned -- or at least regarded as a het meet-market provision rather than something germane to dealing with emotional intimacy. I have perfectly valid reasons for requiring gender-balance that have nothing to do with finding new relationships...
I've been watching this discussion for awhile. I can think of a perfectly valid reason for workshops like HAI to look for gender balance without it becoming a het "meet-market" or play-party. And I'm being serious here, not trying to joke or push anyone's buttons, and bullying or flaming responses will be duly ignored.
In my own experience, it is vastly easier to open up to the opposite gender. Testosterone and aggressive tendencies make a difference, apart from the plumbing. (And in a clothing-optional environment, I wouldn't feel comfortable being up-close to same-gender plumbing, either.) I personally find women to be much safer for emotional intimacy exercises, activities that make myself vulnerable. A workshop involving love and intimacy issues that was, say, 2/3 male would be an instant no-go on my part. Not because of slim pick-up prospects, but because it would be hard for me to find trustworthy exercise partners (and hence the purpose of the workshop would be negated, and a waste of time and money).
I view all males as competitors and potential threats. Neutral at best. I feel that any sign of weakness shown to the a member of the same gender is likely to be used against me, or reduce my status in his eyes. I view women as colleagues and cooperative, potentially supportive, possibly friendly, and only hostile when demonstrated by their actions. Undoubtedly this stems from childhood experiences (gangs of boys routinely physically beat me up, while girls stood by... and older boys sexually molested me, early on) but the level of visceral mistrust of other males is sufficiently strong that even trying to work on these issues with other males has not been possible for me, therapy-wise or otherwise. (And I've tried.)
A big reason why I haven't tried a HAI Level 1 isn't the gender balance -- which I'd see as essential for emotional safety -- but that I've heard that there are exercises involving same-gender emotional intimacy, and that scares me. Ironically, considering that this thread began with discussions of the advisability of event-secrecy.
I'm taking a risk by revealing this much personal stuff in a public forum, but I thought that it was relevant to non-sexual motivations for looking for gender balance at events. Attempts to use the above to mock or humiliate me will be tossed in the bit-bucket (especially from members of the same gender ;-).
I've been watching this discussion for awhile. I can think of a perfectly valid reason for workshops like HAI to look for gender balance without it becoming a het "meet-market" or play-party. And I'm being serious here, not trying to joke or push anyone's buttons, and bullying or flaming responses will be duly ignored.
In my own experience, it is vastly easier to open up to the opposite gender. Testosterone and aggressive tendencies make a difference, apart from the plumbing. (And in a clothing-optional environment, I wouldn't feel comfortable being up-close to same-gender plumbing, either.) I personally find women to be much safer for emotional intimacy exercises, activities that make myself vulnerable. A workshop involving love and intimacy issues that was, say, 2/3 male would be an instant no-go on my part. Not because of slim pick-up prospects, but because it would be hard for me to find trustworthy exercise partners (and hence the purpose of the workshop would be negated, and a waste of time and money).
I view all males as competitors and potential threats. Neutral at best. I feel that any sign of weakness shown to the a member of the same gender is likely to be used against me, or reduce my status in his eyes. I view women as colleagues and cooperative, potentially supportive, possibly friendly, and only hostile when demonstrated by their actions. Undoubtedly this stems from childhood experiences (gangs of boys routinely physically beat me up, while girls stood by... and older boys sexually molested me, early on) but the level of visceral mistrust of other males is sufficiently strong that even trying to work on these issues with other males has not been possible for me, therapy-wise or otherwise. (And I've tried.)
A big reason why I haven't tried a HAI Level 1 isn't the gender balance -- which I'd see as essential for emotional safety -- but that I've heard that there are exercises involving same-gender emotional intimacy, and that scares me. Ironically, considering that this thread began with discussions of the advisability of event-secrecy.
I'm taking a risk by revealing this much personal stuff in a public forum, but I thought that it was relevant to non-sexual motivations for looking for gender balance at events. Attempts to use the above to mock or humiliate me will be tossed in the bit-bucket (especially from members of the same gender ;-).
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no subject
Date: 2003-10-26 08:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-10-26 08:27 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-10-26 08:46 am (UTC)sometimes I feel uncomfortable when anyone treats me differently because I'm female. I'm not somehow better, or more honorable, or more trustworthy because I'm female.
Yes, that. Exactly.
no subject
Date: 2003-10-26 01:49 pm (UTC)That said regarding nature, there are a couple of "nurture" issues. The personal one for me is given above, as far as my own past conditioning that males-are-scumbags goes.
At an indirect level, though, it is hard to overlook the effects of social conditioning. Women are pressured to be more emotionally open, to be nurturing, to be cooperative. Men are pressured to be rugged and emotionally closed, to play rough and aggressively, to be selfish. Various individuals of both/whatever genders absorb or resist these external messages to varying degrees... but all other things being equal, and not knowing the individuals in question, socialization means that I'd still rather take my chances opening up to a woman than to the man next to her at the bar.
no subject
Date: 2003-10-27 10:54 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-10-26 08:42 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-10-26 01:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-10-26 07:34 pm (UTC)Brian, friendship with you is not an INCONVENIENCE!
(Though sometimes it can be ANNOYING, when you pull this sort of self-deprecating crap...)
no subject
Date: 2003-10-26 10:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-10-27 05:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-10-27 09:42 pm (UTC)Once more with feeling
Date: 2003-10-27 08:21 am (UTC)Re: Once more with feeling
Date: 2003-10-27 08:32 am (UTC)Re: Once more with feeling
Date: 2003-10-27 08:53 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-10-26 09:35 am (UTC)I don't know if you're oppressing your female friends. But if you confide in, or open up emotionally to people who INVITE that, REQUEST that, or RECIPROCATE that... then it is probably welcome or a peer exchange.
You might want to ask. Check in to make sure.
I feel like in MY conversations with you, we both have checked in with each other about increases in levels of confiding, or revealing. And that was cool.
I am sad about this thing (I've seen it with other guys, not just you) where guys feel they can't 'go deep, or vulnerable' with other men. These same men reveal their amazingly wonderful sensitivities to ME, but are unable to connect with those of their own gender that way. IS it just a het fear about getting too close, in a mindset where 'closeness = sexualtiy'?
thanks for this post. You say some brave things out loud.
hugs
no subject
Date: 2003-10-26 02:05 pm (UTC)And you and I have both been careful about checking in... I'm just a pathetically-slow typist ;-).
I'm not scared of other men's sexuality, as much as I'm afraid of something nonconsensual happening. Recall your post today about expressing women's sexuality, then worrying that some guy would come back and rape you as a result? I have that twinge of (irrational) fear every time I'm in close physical proximity with another guy. Because things have happened before (albeit, long ago). I've been fooled. I've been attacked and physically beaten after things I confided in confidence were repeated to others. I've been terrorized on a daily basis (again, long ago) by gangs of five or six males, some of whom later confessed that they joined in out of fear that they'd be singled-out themselves otherwise.
But I'm atypical, I'm sure.
no subject
Date: 2003-10-27 05:15 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-10-27 05:25 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-10-27 08:27 am (UTC)