jay | Outside the village...

I'm frankly envious of parents with community support... for example,

dawnd and

akienm are able to find a series of sitters for Allegra so that they could go to a weekend workshop in LA. Without having to, say, fly in Dawn's mother from back East... it's great for them, and I think they'll add a lot to that workshop. But I know that I couldn't do the same thing, and that Pat and I are pretty much on our own as far as child-raising goes... no net, here. When crises have hit, my only option has been to fly in one or the other grandmothers for a while, and/or take vacation time and stay home as well.

Still, that's a natural consequence of not being a part of any particular community, other than sort of tolerated on the fringes... I have only myself to reproach, arguably, for not giving enough or conforming sufficiently.

Current Mood: contemplative

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From:

deedeebythebay.livejournal.com

*sigh*

Look,

coyote3520 and I have a difficult time finding sitters also.

We also have three kids like you do. You have to take that into consideration.

And, *ahem*, I don't know you that well but I've read your journal for quite some time now and I'm going to be very direct with you. Please don't take it with anger or as anger. There is care woven in here right with the bluntness.

Stop. Stop complaining about something that everyone keeps telling you isn't so. Your friends are telling you they are your friends and not tolerating you and you keep throwing that compassion and care and friendship back in their faces by telling them you are only tolerated.

If you keep it up, it will be "only tolerated". Open you home up to friends and keep it friends. Don't worry about being poly and finding partners, make friends. Plan events to the park or a kid friendly place and then invite the world along. Stop sitting there complaining about how you never get out, never get to know people, never get to do anything and get out there and make it happen.

Don't assume I don't know what it is like for you. I have a musician husband who is more poly than I am. It has been a struggle for me as I'm guessing it has been for Pat. We have three kids. Papa is often gone at rehearsals and concerts. BUT, we divide the work evenly at home, we make sure we take care of each other first and we actively create space in which we can get out or have people in without always having to exclude our kids. The kids are a part of our lives, as parents.

I know this may seem harsh and I don't mean it to seem so. But sometimes I just feel like I have to go ahead and be blunt with someone and this "feels" like that time.

I was glad you guys came last time to Wine & Song. Remember, it *is* a kid friendly event. Yes, after a certain time, nudity occurs. If we know this is a problem for a family, we hold it till about 9/9:30/10 and then warn people that it about to become "that time". If you have a child with special needs, all we ask is that if it is the kind of thing that can impact other kids, that you keep an eye on the situation. Busy Family brings their kids.

bdot brings her daughter. Our girls are here.

mertuil has been told she can come and bring her kids.

Want to stop being on the fringers, stop putting yourself there.

From:

patgreene.livejournal.com

If you have a child with special needs, all we ask is that if it is the kind of thing that can impact other kids, that you keep an eye on the situation.

One of the reason taking D any where is an issue is that he does need frequent monitoring, and I find I spend all my time doing so.

Brian is being generous here -- most of the obstacles to doing what you suggest come from *me*, even if he is gracious enough not to say so. So he looks wistfully at things which, in some sense, I am keeping him from having.

From:

tenacious-snail.livejournal.com

I suggested this to him elsewhere, but I think that one of the challenges here is that you're not an extrovert, so the idea of an event requiring that you make phone calls in order to arrange a sitter, and then go out and be social with other people is stretching you to do *two* things that you don't like. One might be tolerable, or something you're willing to do because Brian likes it, but two might be too much.

When the time is right, I've got several alternatives to offer in the hopes that one might be a workable solution.

From:

deedeebythebay.livejournal.com

*hugs* I can understand this. I have watched this with several parents and had it for a while when my eldest was younger.

But if people know what to expect and are willing to make allowances, you might have a chance to reach out some more. And if people know what to expect, nothing is there to say they can't stand with you and visit rather than expecting you to come to them when you need to be watching one of your children.

I have made it clear that even though I don't have a child with special needs there are times when they are hyper or in an environment where I need to keep a close watch and if someone(s) wants to visit with me they'll have to come over to where I am. People have been very understanding and *want* to give in that way. It costs them so little and gives us all so much.

I know, from having three, that I am constantly feeling like their activity, noise and behavior may be suspect and annoying to others. It has taken me a bit of time but I have finally realized that my friends who love me as a friend are honest with me about loving my kids, seeing their behavior as just fine and being willing to hang with me when I'm with my kids or to let me know if it is just too much for them at the moment.

Most often, my fears were far worse than anybody else's perceptions.

You won't know that till you give it a chance.

As for Brian and you, you both give and you both take. The dynamic has seemed strange from here in LJ world wherein it seems often to be done with thanks but also with begrudgement. There are always sixteen sides to every story. I'm not privy to the more private parts of your journal, but I'll gently and caringly still stand firm in that Brian needs to let go of his perception and start accepting what people say to him about being cared for and part of their circle. The more he protests these very same encouragements that he asks for, the more true they may very well become and the less often given. If he feels so much less a part of a community, he's going to have to take action to make himself and/or his family a part of that and willingly, trustingly receive that acceptance when it is given.

Finally, those obstacles you speak of as coming from you. Like I've said elsewhere, I've been a reluctant poly in the past. Sometimes still am though it is hard to tell. You have to set your boundaries. He has to set his. You both have to state your needs. And then you have to find a gentle place in between where you can both be happy. One of the blessings I have had in

coyote3502 is that when I said, "here is my line" he has honored it and done his best to keep his "wistfulness" to himself till I was in a place of trust and comfortableness to be able to draw a new line. I hope that he has found that when he has asked for a boundary or a new ..... "privilege" I have honored what I could and tried to also do it graciously and allow him his space.

I do wish you both the best of luck as you sort this stuff out.

From:

brian1789.livejournal.com

accepting what people say to him about being cared for and part of their circle

Admittedly, that is work to really hear that and let it in.

A large part of feeling marginalized is not adhering to poly-community social norms... not dating anyone locally, no local relationship ties. Being overtly Christian in a mostly-pagan group. Not doing SF cons or renfaires. All of these things feel like invisible barriers that keep myself (and Pat, I think, but I'll let her speak for herself) on the periphery. Even if others don't necessarily see those things as barriers.

For example, at W&S last night, I get in the hot tub, where there are seven or eight people. I'm the only person sitting alone -- I had to leave in order to get a hug (wry grin). Why? I don't think I'm a pariah, rather that everyone else there then was relaxed in casual physical contact with each other -- because they'd all dated interconnectedly, or shared space at parties, or were close friends with benefits, etc. I was outside of that network, hence was not (literally) embraced in the same way. That's not whining -- I had a good time at W&S, and I respect others' boundaries, and I think I'm an attractive (and cuddly) person in my own right. But it is illustrative of the small separations -- others may be oblivious of these, but I notice them.

These underlying interconnections also, IMO, affect others' willingness to accept and help with kids and in crises.

tenacious_snail actually sort of made this point when referring to A&D.

Conversely, in our church community, I'm seen as having "lifestyle issues" by our clergy, such that I'm not allowed to teach classes anymore or run for the vestry. Poly is considered far less acceptable than LGBT -- we had a lesbian Senior Warden (chair of the vestry) last year. Pat has felt at times that she's had to choose between her service in that community and staying in a relationship with me, and she is likewise no longer called upon to help there. So I feel marginalized in that community, and somewhat guilty -- not for what/who I am, but for placing Pat in a tough spot there.

Too mainstream to fit easily in poly groups, too weird to be comfortably accepted in our church -- I feel in limbo, frequently, in-between.

From:

dangerpudding.livejournal.com

I know that as I get to know David better, and as you get to know me better, I'd be happy to offer a hand with this, if you were ok with it. I have a sister who is much like David and who still, at 14, requires some of that attention all the time. I used to handle her and the two younger then her for days at a time- and trade off with my parents in doing it at social events. Having more people to help with that could maybe help it feel like it's worth going to such events?