jay: (posing)
[personal profile] jay
Given a debate in the hallways at work today with [personal profile] hopeforyou, over someone's celebration this evening ... I just don't see how celebrating the onset of an icky, unpleasant bodily function that causes half the population to be cranky and require chocolate and paper products one out of every four weeks is a rite of passage, other than as an affliction. Might as well design a ritual to celebrate, say, acne as the door to adolescence.

In this culture, IMO the things which most clearly delineate children from adults are gaining independent mobility and finances. So I think that a first paid outside job and gaining a driver's license are the true rites of passage in the US, both usually happening around age 15-16.

Date: 2005-08-06 02:43 am (UTC)
rosefox: Me as a young child. (young)
From: [personal profile] rosefox
I would like to note that your criteria don't work so well in a place with good public transit, where kids are usually mobile on their own around 12 or 13. *)

I don't like the idea of celebrating physical ability for procreation as the sole criterion for adulthood. It's an easy dividing line for women, but it prioritizes physical adulthood over emotional adulthood; it's like having a party when someone grows taller than 5'. It also leaves out men and anyone who can't have sex or bear children. I'd much rather start asking around age 11 or 12 "What do you think is the difference between adults and children? When do you think you'll be more like an adult than a child?" and tailoring celebrations and observances to the individual's answer.

Getting my first period was important to me, but mostly in an "Oh good, all the bits work like they're supposed to" way, with a bit of "Now I'm old enough to have sex" thrown in. Burgeoning adulthood for me was much more about having my first steady boyfriend and other social things, because I was raised to believe that friends are very important and that being able to choose good friends and form healthy long-lasting relationships was a major hallmark of maturity. Even having sex for the first time wasn't entirely an adult thing, but a kids-figuring-all-this-stuff-out thing.

Date: 2005-08-06 02:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] brian1789.livejournal.com
Your approach to assessing that transition seems more reasonable to me than a sign of physical adulthood... I wasn't entirely kidding with the comment about acne (another physical sign).

Transit-wise, that would simply mean that kids in places with good public transit, er, tend to grow up faster :).

Date: 2005-08-06 08:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] deedeebythebay.livejournal.com
I don't like the idea of celebrating physical ability for procreation as the sole criterion for adulthood.

As I've now tried to explain to [profile] brian1789 a few times, this was not a recognition of my child becoming an adult all of a sudden....that's a bit ridiculous. This is a recognition that an important thing has happened to her, her body is changing just as her life is. This is a milestone of sorts and we're giving it weight and encouraging her on her way as she continues to journey to adulthood. It was very affirming to her and every woman who participated, that I'm aware of, felt positive about the ritual.

Burgeoning adulthood for me was much more about having my first steady boyfriend and other social things, because I was raised to believe that friends are very important and that being able to choose good friends and form healthy long-lasting relationships was a major hallmark of maturity.

Likewise with my children......this was not some out of the blue ritual that just happened because she got her period...as I've said above, it is part of the process and a recognition of the progress she's made as a person to this point....this is just a convenient, and in its own way powerful, event that allows us to pause for a moment, celebrate her progress, celebrate her as a "woman" and encourage her futher growth.

Date: 2005-08-06 02:44 pm (UTC)
rosefox: Green books on library shelves. (Default)
From: [personal profile] rosefox
I'm very glad the ritual went well.

I think it's the phrase "coming of age" that gets me. It sounds like it's a single cusp that covers all the bases at once.

Date: 2005-08-06 05:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] deedeebythebay.livejournal.com
I think we've been careful that this was her "womanhood ritual" and only one "coming of age" ceremonies to be performed as she grows older but I can understand how it comes across.

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