Defining rites of passage

[jay]

Given a debate in the hallways at work today with hopeforyou, over someone's celebration this evening ... I just don't see how celebrating the onset of an icky, unpleasant bodily function that causes half the population to be cranky and require chocolate and paper products one out of every four weeks is a rite of passage, other than as an affliction. Might as well design a ritual to celebrate, say, acne as the door to adolescence.

In this culture, IMO the things which most clearly delineate children from adults are gaining independent mobility and finances. So I think that a first paid outside job and gaining a driver's license are the true rites of passage in the US, both usually happening around age 15-16.

Comments

[deedeebythebay.livejournal.com]

It is difficult for me to read any of this. Despite being given valid reasons for the celebration and many of them repeatedly from people you supposedly like and respect, you continue to denigrate this celebration and the way that it handled.

And, by the way, I didn't say my child was becoming an adult....the entire celebration was that "Ok, now you have a very visible marker of your passage into adulthood, the journey you are on." And in my earlier response to your question, I explained the other "rites of passage" my children will experience and how they will differ as they mature and accept more responsibilities.

Instead, I see this post of yours again and feel like you are calling me foolish and laughing at me. Something that is important to me and has been very important to my daughter in the planning of it and the execution of it.

I'm happy that it was a wonderful ritual, that she was reminded of her continued need to "grow" and "learn" and "experience". To celebrate these changes, to acknowledge they may be difficult just as life is difficult but to find the beauty in all things.

I have to admit that your post and your responses to others explanations seems insensitive and stubborn enough to cause hurt feelings and I want to suggest that if you can't be affirming the least you can do is not subtly ridicule that which is important to someone else.

[lynne-laughs.livejournal.com]

1. I like that you can express your feelings. Some of the comments have been hurtful.
2. You know your daughter and you know what is important to her. Good for you to create the ritual and work hard to make it happen. The ritual was for HER, and if others feel it is silly or wierd or whatever then they are not seeing what is really important. The important thing is that you made something happen for your daughter that was meaningful and that she will remember for the rest of her life. Hurray!

[deedeebythebay.livejournal.com]

Thank you.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Whatever works to make the daughter happy and feel supported, agreed.

[coyote3502.livejournal.com]

Also, realize that this was a religious rite, every bit as solemn and important as First Communion or even Baptism. So, I suppose I could comment that it seems pretty silly to take a child who has no choice and dip his/her head under water to signify entry into the Church and all the messed up psychological things that go along with it.

But I won't, because I still have a deep love for the rites and traditions of the Church, if not its opressive teachings.

My daughter found it humbling and empowering to realize that she's part of a community of women (and men) who celebrate the parts of what makes us human that our society keeps telling us is wrong, messy, dirty and should be somehow eliminated or, at the very least, hidden and made an object of shame.

I'm glad I have a strong daughter surrounded by strong women.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

(nods) and the religious aspect would have precluded my own attendance even if I had had the correct set of plumbing. Which also ties into delimiting cyan_blue's use of the term "community" below... "welcomed by other female Pagans" would have been more accurate.

[coyote3502.livejournal.com]

Ah, but are there not "women's" and "men's" organizations within the Church? I don't see a problem, frankly. We all have our functions within our community. The challenge is finding that function and not pining for that which we aren't. Many parts, one body.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

In some churches, yes... in some faiths, men and women even have to sit gender-segregated. Personally, I boycott gender-limited organizations and events as a rule, rebuffing several attempts by my local pastor to get me to join their men's organization (or at least visit).

[dangerpudding.livejournal.com]

Um, I have to assume that while being pagan friendly and open to being a part of ritual were a requirement, self-defining as pagan were not. Otherwise, my invitation to this event was possibly misplaced.

[karenbynight.livejournal.com]

huh? I am not Pagan, and I seriously doubt I was the only non-Pagan in attendance, either.

I also have attended Catholic and Jewish wedding ceremonies in my life. I don't have to be part of a religion to share the importance of its ceremony.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

The original discussion with hopeforyou was triggered in the context of her mentioning her attendance, granted... but then went off into an argument over the validity of any given physical symptom as a marker of adulthood, and what were the rites-of-passage in US society (as compared to other places). It was/is then not about you, or your daughter, specifically.

Even if I generally doubt the usefulness of that particular milestone as compared to any other metric, that's no reason why you shouldn't specifically give your daughter a party for any reason whatsoever.