rotational greetings...

[jay]

Happy solstice, for those who celebrate it.... it doesn't work for me, per se, but I respect the choices of others to follow their own spiritual paths.
...
A useful link for those inclined to planetary movement-based holidays (solstice, equinoxes, etc) is here, with tables of dates and UTC times of each from 1992-2020.

Comments

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Saying "happy celebration, even if I don't really get it myself" doesn't impugn anything (other than perhaps my own cluelessness)...

[tshuma]

I disagree.

[geekchick]

What's wrong with stopping after a simple "happy celebration", without the qualifiers? Your addition there reads to me as being dismissive of the importance of the celebration to other people, among whom are several of your friends. What I heard was "Happy solstice, although I personally think the celebration of it is silly".

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Ok, I've attempted to rewrite the post to sound less irritating or dismissive, and without losing the US Naval Observatory tables.

[deedeebythebay.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the rewrite. *hugs*

[princeofwands.livejournal.com]

Yes, thanks for the effort that went into the rewrite on this post.


I would like to leave this thread with the following parting thoughts.
Please take this rhetorically if you like.

Do you find it necessary or appropriate to pass the same disclaimers as you have here when passing on seasonal well wishes to persons of Jewish faith?

Have you observed this level of disclaimer as common or useful in social settings between people of differing religious backgrounds?

As someone with a stated preference for avoiding making direct confrontational statements, can you imagine the connotation that going to the lengths you have here to disclaim yourself from this particular belief set above and beyond cultural norms?

I think that last one is source of the disconnect between your intention on this post and the reaction from your reader-friends here.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

My two concerns are... expressing confusion, and not being inadvertently viewed as posing as a member of something I'm not. Given Jewish holidays... I have an idea of what's going on at Passover and Yom Kippur. And rarely am I in a position where someone might think I'm posing as Jewish.

More relevant, actually, are disclaimers I issue WRT Southern Baptists and other Christian fundamentalists -- not because of confusion over what they're doing, per se, but because I feel like I need to differentiate my practices and beliefs and politics from theirs, and in some circles I'm assumed to agree unless I overtly dissent. I don't want to be mistaken as passing as a evangelical fundie, even though I *could* in many situations (particularly around my parents' in Atlanta, where it is as much the assumed cultural norm as paganism is an assumed norm in many poly circles) by doing or saying nothing.

[princeofwands.livejournal.com]

That's pretty much exactly why I wanted to point out to you how it was coming across, because I had to believe that you went into it not knowing that it would be taken badly.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Sometimes... I say something, knowing in advance that it may come across badly, because I have to say it for my own peace of mind...

[princeofwands.livejournal.com]

Please tell me you don't mean for this to sound like sometimes I'm a jerk to my friends to feel better about myself. :-(

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

If I can't at that time think of a better way to convey something, I'm likely to go ahead. Indirectly, if it is actually meant as criticism or distance or sometimes agreement. Directly, if it seems neutral or an observation. In the latter case, I could argue that the use of a direct communication style, even in observances, could come across as rude...

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

And, by the way, the imputation to feel better about myself is yours, not something I'd agree with myself.

If I were going to be direct here, I might kindly recommend that you go perform some uncomfortable obscene act on yourself, given that you're trying to put words and motives in my mouth...

[princeofwands.livejournal.com]

Heh. Oops. Rightfully called on that mis-used turn of phrase. The thought I meant to convey was "make yourself feel better". A subtle but very significant difference, I think.

In any case - yeah, I am trying to ascribe motives to your actions. I'm trying things on to see if they fit, because the obvious-to-me interpretations just aren't flattering and I really want to think better of you than that. In fact I generally do think better of you than the reactions I've been having to this thread. So I'm trying to figure out the disconnect.

Unfortunately, this is pretty clearly well passed the point of rational discussion. Sorry that I managed to push your buttons quite so far. I admit to intentionally pushing, it's how I interact with the world, but I didn't intend to get you quite so lathered up, and for that much, I apologize.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

My perception has been that you haven't commented at all... unless/until you decide to pounce on something or other in my journal. At which point I see the ascribing of some bad motives to me and/or putting words in my mouth. This has happened IMO several times over, and my unexpressed level of wariness and frustration has been increasing after each incident.

I haven't seen these interactions as you constructively addressing my own goals or needs, only trying to score points and embarrass me online (poking?)... and I find myself repeatedly during/after in a position where I'm angry and confrontational and defensive. Sometimes persisting for a week or two after the dust settles. This is in marked contrast to our in-person interactions, which have been much more pleasant and friendly.

I try to stoically absorb and not respond to some level of button-pushing, in the name of not making a fuss and local harmony, but at some point I hit my own red zones.

While I still wouldn't buy make yourself feel better, (see Les's view, she was on-target), I appreciate the apology, and thanks.

[tenacious-snail.livejournal.com]

I am reading your words here differently from Bry. I think what you may be saying is "Sometimes, I feel compelled to say something, and even though I'm not able to come up with a way of expressing it that I am confident will not be offensive. To me, being silent seems like it would be taken as agreement with something that I strongly disagree with, so I'd rather speak up, even if imperfectly."

Is that at all close to what you're intending?

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's it.