Jekyll/Hyde

[jay]

A few realizations, today, largely unrelated.

For some combination of reasons, I've been depressed, almost despondent at times, since we got back Friday evening. And this has spun off my usual depression-parasitic reactions... increased insecurity, defiance, self-putdowns, clingyness. Strangely, my spirits were hugely lifted in a Krispy Kreme shop tonight when the counter guy handed me a warm doughnut... "you look like you could use this." Not on my waistline, perhaps, but that little act of kindness brought me out of a funk. Thankfully, my down periods rarely persist for more than a few days, and soon I'll be back at work (which tends to drag me out of a hole).

At work I feel in charge of myself, competent, capable and I have a track record of accomplishments. Self-confidence. I know my value, and can measure my past impact in a couple of fields. And I enjoy it -- I feel passionately about what I do, and learn. All of those things collude to bring me up and make me fully-functional again.

Personally or socially... I feel adrift, incompetent, and fairly unattractive. Like I have no accomplishments, and nothing much to offer personally. Left idle at home, or without positive external social reinforcement, I'll tend to damp down and gnaw on myself. And I'm not fishing for compliments here... I'm stating my mindset, whether or not it matches reality. One reason that I avoid planning a social calendar during the workweek is that subconsciously I associate it with this mindset. Brian-the-scientist doesn't want to think about turning back into Brian-the-geek, come Friday evening, or the possibilities for failure and rejection therein. Kind of a Jekyll/Hyde flip... and at the same time, I feel internally compelled to go out and find friends and be social. I can't just hide away until Monday morning.

Another realization, coming out of a 2-hour-long chat with my dear friend EA, is that my courting behaviors, manners, and attitudes are much closer to what girls are apparently taught than boys. I wait for the other person to make the first move. I dislike pursuing... I worry about harrassing or annoying women if I show much interest. I'd much rather wait until someone shows some signs of interest, then reciprocate. All of my five past-and-present sweeties kissed me first, probably after running out of patience (wry smile). patgreene claims that I moved first, but she's wrong ;-).

The same thing is true of casual touching... even with partners or close friends. I don't want to seem forward, or make the other person uncomfortable. I almost never reach for anyone. If someone takes my hand, fine, then I can safely assume that that level of touch is welcomed from then onward. But if I touch a woman who doesn't want my touch, I'm a bad person, a boor.

Even in the bedroom... I'm reluctant to be demanding or to impose anything on my partners... so I don't approach my partners unless they first seem interested themselves. Even if I'm really frustrated, myself. Unless I'm running out of time on an LDR visit... (reminisce).

Inculcated belief structure: approaching is aggressive. Aggression is bad...

EA's response was that she was confused, that these are things that women are often taught in this culture... and teasingly asked me what gender I was born ;-).

Comments

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

In a slightly altered state... I think that my first response was still too defensive (and off on a tangent about new hardware development ;). You have excellent points, here... and thanks for the heads-up.

I am not looking to dominate you with my ideas

IMO, ideas should stand or fall on their own merits, ideally. And if nothing else, I haven't been quite listening to what *these specific women* recommend, as far as relating goes. I should buy a clue, sometimes...

[akienm.livejournal.com]

Very good.

[akienm.livejournal.com]

What I have found over the years has been this: No one woman's ideas of how they want to be treated, touched, approached, whatever is universal. That there are pretty much no fixed points.

What I did was to pay attention to those women around me, to what worked for them, and add it to my library. The more women I have known, the larger my library has become.

The early parts of a relationship for me are usually figuring out which things in the library I can use with this new person, and seeing if I can learn anything new that I can add to the library.

One side effect of this is I tend to connect with women of a similar type - intelligent, strong willed, passionate... Because I know well how to relate to those individuals. There are a lot of women I can't connect to, because my library doesn't yet include those types.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

there are pretty much no fixed points

That's reasonable... no different than in child-raising. An input that works for one child may fail miserably with a later child.

The more women I have known, the larger my library has become.

You're at a large relative advantage there, probably an order of magnitude or so. And that kind of library doesn't loan.

The early parts of a relationship for me are usually figuring out which things in the library I can use

Again, that makes sense to me. Although lacking said library, instead I carefully watch and try to figure out everything anew. Which takes time, treading lightly meanwhile.

There are a lot of women I can't connect to, because my library doesn't yet include those types.

Not knowing enough to define a library, that would (by extension) seem to consign me to not connecting with anyone at all...

[akienm.livejournal.com]

Not at all, unless you cling to that belief.

You have a library that has worked for all your existing and past relationships. Even if you only had 2 in your life, that would still be a library of what worked for two people. There was a time when my library consisted of two people.

And it doesn't have to be just who your in Romantic Relationship with, anyone you interact with who you find attractive can give you the opportunity to grow your library.

Important: If you argue for your limitations, you will tend to keep them.

You are a scientist, a trained observer, but you fail to observe what works in your interactions with others. Why is that? You only see the failures.

And how many failures went into the light bulb? Do you think Edison sunk into depression about it and lamented that it couldn't be done? (FYI:he NEVER did.)

It is by believing that what we want is possible that it comes to pass. Not by believing that it's impossible. I used to think I knew nothing about women and would never successfully connect with anyone. The fact that you said the things about me above that you did would tend to indicate that this isn't who I turned out to be.

I AM NOT SPECIAL. Anyone can learn.

One of my favorite quotes: You see things and you say "why?" I see things that never were and say "Why not?" Make your dreams come true by believing. Why not?

You are one of the more intelligent people I know. I think if we hung around, I could learn a lot from you. One of the things you said was that you knew you were a good and valuable person. I submit that you may know it with your head, but your heart doesn't believe it.

One more thing, if I may, Reacting to the bullies is what they want. Whether you react by directly opposing them or indirectly in other ways. The bullies of your childhood are gone. You are still reacting to them. They have won. And your reactions are so strong that you seem to have made some of the people around you (RJ, Aaron, etc.) take their place.

It's your life. It's up to you what happens with it.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

but you fail to observe what works in your interactions with others. Why is that?

Hmmm... I've been thinking about that, albeit sidetracked over the past week. I tend to assume that what works is just minimum competence, and hence ignorable, while my failures are significant. It's a weighting issue...

And how many failures went into the light bulb?

Good point. If the context were technical, or impersonal, it would be exact. And in those things, I persevere over long time periods, typically at work. In interpersonal communications, and particularly in approaching women, they have their own feelings and probably don't want to be my learning-curve examples. So I'm reluctant to try -- not out of lack of perseverance or desire to learn, but because I'm worried about offending others if I approach or flirt.

I used to think I knew nothing about women and would never successfully connect with anyone.

That's surprising! And gives me pause... everyone's unique, but there are undoubtedly some things that I could learn from your example and experiences.

if we hung around, I could learn a lot from you

Thanks -- I'm honored that you'd say that :-).

You are still reacting to them. They have won.

That's been true for three decades. I've carried the proverbial chip on my shoulder since then, striving to neither be bullied (or show weakness) nor pressure others. Non-optimal... but that anger, grief and rage is so buried so deeply that I'm not sure how I could ever release it. There are a lot of old scars and adhesions... I've done a lot of work over the past few years, actually.

Thanks for your thoughtful and valuable feedback.