A long night...

[jay]

I'm back from an exhausting 2.5 hour couples session tonight with patgreene.. .it was supposed to go 1:20.

I'm supposed to work on not caretaking, only looking inside my boundaries... on having fun, getting enough sleep, and asking people how they are feeling instead of extrapolating from their actions. Pat is supposed to work on giving me space to feel my emotions and not telling me what they are... and do her self-care.

If she's emotional and angry or crying, that feels threatening, and I'm then quiet and unresponsive. So as not to provide further provocation... in childhood, strong emotions nearby were a prelude to getting physically beaten. She often jumps in if I don't give a verbal answer... if she asks me, I stay silent, then she'll say "I think you are feeling [emotion]."

Time went quickly... I was on the spot for most of the time. The therapist does not like my assuming responsibility for managing others' emotions. And she was not pleased that I don't feel that I can say no... that I need to go to great lengths to try to satisfy any reasonable request by others. Much of our work is going to be on defining boundaries...

Comments

[griffen.livejournal.com]

*smiles* Yep, it is. And I'm proud of you both.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Thanks. (wearily)

[serenejournal.livejournal.com]

This sounds really encouraging (and exhausting). I can identify with the childhood stuff. My biggest fear in life is disappointing people, at least in part because my mother's response to being disappointed/angry with me was to beat me. Eww.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Ow! I can sympathize, likewise. My abuse came at the hands of peers and older kids, not parents, so tends to be tripped in social situations. But without the intense trust issues that I'd imagine would come from parental abuse.

[serenejournal.livejournal.com]

Been mostly offline for a month or so; sorry so late with this reply. I think I got lucky and didn't end up mistrusting people. What I did instead, and I think some would call this not so lucky, is got really good at making sure the people around me are happy. It's a good skill to have, but it can go too far.

[who-is-she.livejournal.com]

Brian,
this stuff is really good to talk about and work on.

WHen you say "she was not pleased that I don't feel I can say no..."
...... well, it's not that she isn't pleased with you,.. it's that she sees you could be much happier if you developed more range. I hope you can get that, deep inside you. Its not about changing you, it's about extending your range, making you wider, deeper.....

I struggle with making boundaries, with saying no. I was just thinking about this yesterday while at work: I am ABLE To say no..but find it so frightening sometimes.. to think that my 'no' may be hurting someone...especially a loved one!. and to have them come back SAYING that my 'no' hurt them or upset them is very difficult for me to deal with. It's a new skill that I'm just developing the ability to do as well.

Remember that when Pat "guesses" what you are feeling, I'd imagine she is doing that becuase she WANTS to know how you're feeling....but you aren't giving her enough information. And giving information on feelings is so hard......especially for those of us who have spent so much time not being intouch with feelings.. that it's hard to identify them by name.

you can feel free to practice on me, too..... if you find yourself automatically 'guessing' at what I'm feeling.... I will try to remind myself to notice and mention it...and you are welcome to catch yourself and ask me. Asking me how I'm feeling is fine.
:)

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

find it so frightening sometimes.. to think that my 'no' may be hurting someone...

Right. Having experienced tons of rejection myself in life, on personal levels, it is very hard to consider inflicting that on others. Unless there's a core personal-safety issue.

One reason that I have dated so few people is that I'm afraid of having to ever tell someone "no" if it isn't quite working out...

if you find yourself automatically 'guessing' at what I'm feeling.... you are welcome to catch yourself and ask me

Actually, the feeling-inference process only gets used much in-person... I don't know your responses and mannerisms and body language well enough yet to make more than the crudest guesses at your internal emotional state. And online... not even that.

Heh. Maybe that's one reason why I only seem to be capable of LDRs... I have to take the other person at their face value.

[trinker.livejournal.com]

Sounds like very good stuff is going on!

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

I hope it is good stuff... the jury is certainly still out.

[hobbitbabe.livejournal.com]

What impresses me is what a lot of work and insight are already going on, for you to be able to recognize and articulate these problematic habits and traits. I hope that your therapist and Pat are giving you credit for this.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Hm. Not really... more like I'm chided for not-getting-it, or not being further along. Pat jumped on me for 15 minutes about not already having set up individual counselling for myself, outside of the couples sessions.

[lintqueen.livejournal.com]

I know it probably didn't sound this way, but the "jumping on you" was, I imagine, borne partly out of a little frustration that you're not moving towards happiness as quickly as she sees (/thinks), which is driven, of course, by a genuine love for you.

My SO is depressed (that is an understatement). Also afraid of strong emotion and unwilling to say no for fear of repercussions (of the sort mentioned by someone else here). I "push" sometimes about him getting "serious" about therapy, because I see the person he could be (happy!!!) and love him and want to see him there. Part of it is, admittedly, selfish, because he'd be a better partner for me if he weren't miserable, etc.; however, part of it is just that it pains me to see someone I love so mucked up.

By (not great) analogy: it's not "this car is broken; damn this frustrating broken car," but "I love this car and I want to drive this car and if it would just hold oil a little better it'd be a super swell car and I know that's something that can be fixed."

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

That's an interesting viewpoint... I've always viewed Pat's pushing as motivated by a desire to change me to cause me to be somehow more compatible with her needs or desires (the "selfish" motive ;). It wouldn't have occurred to me that there might be another, on her part. It would help if she didn't bring up therapy/counselling most often at times when she's the most annoyed with me. ;)

[lintqueen.livejournal.com]

Well, FWIW, I tend not to bring up counseling in the "good times" either, because they're, well, *good* and I just don't want to spoil it! Talking about therapy is almost guaranteed to put SO in a bad mood, so bringing it up with he *is* cheerful seems like a waste of a perfectly good mood! ;-)

Now I'm not Pat and I don't know what's driving her... but that's what happens from my POV?