my backsliding, exclusion of others?

[jay]

On the one hand, I don't feel like I'm inherently unworthy and unlovable as result of Wednesday night, so that's an improvement over the past. But I have still blown it... I promised myself a month ago to stop looking for external reassurement or validation, and therefore I should not have let the absence of such affect me at all. Grr. As soon as I needed a shoulder, off I went. (shakes head) This is going to be harder than I could have imagined.

Thanks to both dawnd at lunch and p3aches tonight for their friendly reality-check inputs. :)

One thing that popped up in a comment in someone else's journal... about people feeling excluded. I try to not say "no" to requests unless core health or safety issues are at stake for me... not merely for my wants or convenience. I initially thought "of course I haven't excluded anyone", but the idea has been wriggling memelike since then, finally seeding a small doubt.

No one has ever told me that they've felt excluded by me... if anyone has, I hope that they'd tell me so, either by comment or email, as well as my behaviors at the time. Otherwise, I'm going to assume that I'm in the clear on that issue...

Comments

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

It becomes my job when someone asks... until that moment, I have no responsibility for their outcome. Afterward, I will inevitably have an impact, one way or another. So I'm similarly careful about asking for things from others, myself, not wanting to lay that burden on them unnecessarily.

And this would be where you get into trouble, no? =)

(nods) when my carefully-considered, rationed request is blithely blown off by the other person as being of no consequence, yes, that gets to be annoying...

[princeofwands.livejournal.com]

It becomes my job when someone asks... until that moment, I have no responsibility for their outcome.

I would argue that generalized - it doesn't become your job until you choose to make it your job.

In some cases (as you've cited above, like having competing requests/obligations) that's when you choose to accept the request. In other cases, perhaps when you've chosen to accept that role for someone - where their every wish is but your command. Leading toward the parenting example above - where it is your job as long as you are being that parent regardless of the asking. But in every case, there is a decision point where you accept the responsibility - and that choice happens internally rather than at someone else's whim, no?

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

I would argue that generalized - it doesn't become your job until you choose to make it your job.

The only way I can see to avoiding it is to avoid hearing a request in the first place... rather like the Supreme Court deciding whether or not to hear a given case. Once they've decided to hear it, they've chosen to make it their job... they will decide, one way or another.

[princeofwands.livejournal.com]

Aha, but when they decline to "hear" a case, they do not base the decision on no information regarding the case, they instead accept and interpret the case and determine if their limited time/attention/effort/energy is well spent on the particular request based on what they have been initially told.

Much like when someone says "Hey, could you give me a ride...?" Having received the request, you have the power to consider whether your limited time/attention/effort/energy is well spent on that request.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

You're right, the Supreme Court is a flawed analogy, as they've already received information (and hence a refusal to hear equals a "no").

To avoid making it my job, I'd have to avoid the person making the request... somehow.

[geekchick]

It becomes my job when someone asks... until that moment, I have no responsibility for their outcome.

No, it becomes your job when you choose to make it so.

(nods) when my carefully-considered, rationed request is blithely blown off by the other person as being of no consequence, yes, that gets to be annoying...

You know, what I'm getting out of this discussion is that when you make a request of me, I'm unable to say no without it being a Big Deal[tm] for you. Am I wrong in this?

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Mostly wrong, because I wasn't Talking About You (tm) per se, but about how I approach asking people generally. The more known-and-trusted someone is to me, the easier it is to hear refusals and consequently the more likely I am to ask for things directly.

Check your own personal experience... you and patgreene both tell me "no" on a variety of things, with some frequency, and I don't fall to pieces afterward. I even ask you for some things that I know are likely to be refused ;-). Or that will possibly annoy you by my asking... yet I will do so anyway with you. That latitude and risk-taking with you is actually a huge compliment and vote of trust on my part, whether or not perceived as such (smile).

[geekchick]

Mostly wrong, because I wasn't Talking About You (tm) per se, but about how I approach asking people generally.

Granted that it wasn't specifically about me, nor did I think it was actually.

you and patgreene both tell me "no" on a variety of things, with some frequency, and I don't fall to pieces afterward.

Well, this is a good thing. =) You seem to be saying elsewhere though that you don't disclose any inconvenience that you may be dealing with to the person who's asking you for something, so it could probably be understandable if I also figured that you would generally also hide any disappointment from the person who turns you down. I'm glad to hear that's not the case.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Not the case for you and Pat, at least. ;-) And maybe a couple of others.