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jayWell, things have now taken an even worse turn. Ten days ago, Pat wanted more pre-consultation on when I scheduled dates with other sweeties. Then six days ago she wanted some period of physical monogamy, with me reducing my time and energy put into "outside commitments" in order to "focus on rebuilding our relationship." And she admitted that she had not been honest with me about her true feelings when we ended our separation in August -- she wanted to resume a relationship so badly that she was willing to lie to herself (and to me) that co-existing with my other ongoing relationships would be acceptable and OK for her. My response was that I was willing to talk about things between us, and her feelings, and try to work out a new set of agreements. I was even willing to revert to physical monogamy, at least for some period of time, after consulting with my other loves. We were each going to prepare a list of our needs from a primary or lifepartner, compare our requirements, and try to figure out if we had enough to work from.
Yesterday, we went to a couples-coulselling session. I was wary when Pat suggested we should take two cars. For good reason. She has now spiraled down to an ever-more-hardline position, day-to-day. For no apparent reason, as I have kept a low profile this week.
Now her ultimatum was even more restrictive than six day's previous: either divorce, or (a) end all poly relationships, (b) no further contact with anyone "in the poly community" or any friends not approved by her, (c) no further participation in poly or alternative-culture newsgroups, mailing lists and the like, (d) no further communication with any ot the above. I had a two page list of my relationship needs and likes; hers proved to be a one-paragraph printing of traditional marriage vows, lifted from a prayerbook.
We have an 18-year marriage, which has been notably unfulfilling... she has been hospitalized several times for mental illness, voluntarily and involuntarily. And is chronically ill, and not an equal partner in almost any area. She has a law degree (with honors) from Stanford, but didn't like 9-5 work and volunteered to spend the past 8 years at home. So she has no income. And we have three kids, which she is threatening to take away to live in Mississippi if I don't give her what she wants, living off of my alimony and child support payments. I don't know if she can actually do that if I'm providing all of the financial support, but that's a bridge to cross if/when we come to it.
"The poly community" isn't going to help me raise my kids, and my sweeties (all LDRs) can't provide anything other than sympathy and moral support. So I'm faced with possibly losing a lot for the sake of a concept, or philosophy. But I have to be able to live with, and respect myself. And I haven't generally enjoyed being married to Pat for, say, the past 8-10 years or so. And dictating my choice of friends or whom I can communicate with is intolerable -- that's a boundary issue for me. What if I tried to tell her to cease all communication with her hardline moralizing church friends? They put at least as much pressure on our relationship as do any influences from "the poly community". She wouldn't stand for it (justifiably). And neither will I. If she's willing to communicate and work together, maybe we can find some compromises in other areas that will salvage our relationship, at least until the kids are older. But there will have to be dialogue and intent to work on both of our sides, not just ultimatums tossed over a fence. She is in a lot of pain and anxiety and fear right now. For now, I am going to wait patiently...
Yesterday, we went to a couples-coulselling session. I was wary when Pat suggested we should take two cars. For good reason. She has now spiraled down to an ever-more-hardline position, day-to-day. For no apparent reason, as I have kept a low profile this week.
Now her ultimatum was even more restrictive than six day's previous: either divorce, or (a) end all poly relationships, (b) no further contact with anyone "in the poly community" or any friends not approved by her, (c) no further participation in poly or alternative-culture newsgroups, mailing lists and the like, (d) no further communication with any ot the above. I had a two page list of my relationship needs and likes; hers proved to be a one-paragraph printing of traditional marriage vows, lifted from a prayerbook.
We have an 18-year marriage, which has been notably unfulfilling... she has been hospitalized several times for mental illness, voluntarily and involuntarily. And is chronically ill, and not an equal partner in almost any area. She has a law degree (with honors) from Stanford, but didn't like 9-5 work and volunteered to spend the past 8 years at home. So she has no income. And we have three kids, which she is threatening to take away to live in Mississippi if I don't give her what she wants, living off of my alimony and child support payments. I don't know if she can actually do that if I'm providing all of the financial support, but that's a bridge to cross if/when we come to it.
"The poly community" isn't going to help me raise my kids, and my sweeties (all LDRs) can't provide anything other than sympathy and moral support. So I'm faced with possibly losing a lot for the sake of a concept, or philosophy. But I have to be able to live with, and respect myself. And I haven't generally enjoyed being married to Pat for, say, the past 8-10 years or so. And dictating my choice of friends or whom I can communicate with is intolerable -- that's a boundary issue for me. What if I tried to tell her to cease all communication with her hardline moralizing church friends? They put at least as much pressure on our relationship as do any influences from "the poly community". She wouldn't stand for it (justifiably). And neither will I. If she's willing to communicate and work together, maybe we can find some compromises in other areas that will salvage our relationship, at least until the kids are older. But there will have to be dialogue and intent to work on both of our sides, not just ultimatums tossed over a fence. She is in a lot of pain and anxiety and fear right now. For now, I am going to wait patiently...
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no subject
Date: 2001-10-27 05:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2001-10-27 05:54 pm (UTC)yech
Date: 2001-10-27 06:03 pm (UTC)That would make me nuts even in a monogamous relationship.
Did the counselor have anything to say about this?
I think lots of folks have experienced having to "not be poly" while their kids' custody was established, but I know for sure that lots of folks have had restrictions that the kids not move out of the state be part of custody arrangements.
If you decide to stay married, you've got a lot of taking care of yourself to do.
If you decide not to, it might be time to find a poly-friendly and poly-experienced lawyer. :/
Re: yech
Date: 2001-10-31 11:30 pm (UTC)A friend locally, whose sister is divorced and is moving her kids out-of-state, says that the court is allowing her to do this (without her ex-husband's approval) because she is providing nearly all of the financial support as well as the custody (ex is unemployed), and elsewhere offers a lower cost of living and better schools for the kids. Pat is not likely to get a job, let alone provide majority financial support, so we will likely be tied together (via our kids) for the next 13 years.
But in any case I'm going to stay put and stay in the marriage... Pat will have to initiate any breakup, and actively throw me out and reject me.
no subject
Date: 2001-10-27 10:51 pm (UTC)ditto
Date: 2001-10-28 12:22 pm (UTC)I also think it is abusive to demand control over another person's social contracts as well. And overall, it's one thing to ask your partner to do something -- and quite another to demand that one's partner do it...or else. In leaving you no middle ground, there is no room for negotiation and consideration for your needs -- which are important too.
I know a few people who have had to deal with custody battles where polyamory was an issue. It is never an easy battle, though some of them have found support and ways of handling the situation which are better-than-Tennessee average. If you would like references from them, please contact me in email. Take care of yourself, and I hope things get better.
Re: ditto
Date: 2001-10-31 11:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2001-10-31 11:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2001-10-28 01:40 am (UTC)I think you might be surprised there. A lot of polyfolk have kids about the same age as yours; you might be able network with some of them and work out afterschool rotations and stuff like that. Get in touch with Akien and Dawn about it--I'm sure they can recommend resources for you. Some of us childfree types would be willing to babysit, too, though I'm too far away to really make that offer more than once in a while. But the offer is made nonetheless.
That's what community means. That's what community does. If that's the situation you end up being in--and I think you could very conceivably win a custody battle--then we will be there for you, guaranteed.
You're in my thoughts, hon. *hugs* Hang in there. And don't give up without a fight!
no subject
Date: 2001-11-01 12:02 am (UTC)What I haven't figured out yet are how to handle overnight business trips (about 20 nights/year away from home) or 10 days at work in the Arctic.
no subject
Date: 2001-10-30 05:26 am (UTC)My sympathies over the custody worries.
no subject
Date: 2001-10-31 11:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2001-11-01 05:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2001-11-03 01:22 am (UTC)