Venting

[jay]

A couple of days ago, I looked at a graph, had a half-hour of angst over some implications, vented in an LJ entry, shook it off and went on to work, focussed on other things. I nearly disabled comments... instead, spent most of my energy over the past two days replying to comments and working out the aftereffects with various partners.

A meta-level comment: I periodically see something that I perceive as negatively reflecting on myself, become depressed, and then rebound. The "down" period is usually minutes-to-hours... I don't generally sit alone at home bashing myself. And I know that I'm not worthless, or completely without some virtues... whatever I may feel when I'm in one of those self-critical periods.

Posting during those periods, however, has led to unnecessary drama on several occasions (either here or on alt.poly) over the past five years. I think I should begin disabling comments when I'm venting at myself...

Comments

[trinker.livejournal.com]

I can see the value in writing it out, but maybe you want to go a step further than disabling comments, and make the entry private?

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Hmmm... I've never done a private entry. They seem to me... counter to the purpose of Live Journal? There's little in my life that needs to be private, per se...

[trinker.livejournal.com]

Brian...what is the point of venting and not letting people comment? I can see it in some other cases, but in the particular cases you're referring to, if I were one of your partners, I'd be even more upset to be disallowed commentary.

[geekchick]

I second the recommendation about perhaps making those entries private. I hope our phone conversation last night helped explain at least a little about why some of us react the way we do to those kinds of statements.

Love you.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

love you, lil' canteloupe... I'm hard-headed, but slowly get a few things.

[geekchick]

Peach...I think I'll dye my hair peach... ;)

FWIW, I suggested that maybe private entries would be a way to approach the issue because I thought that the writing it out was the important thing for you. I make private posts when I'm still working things out in my own head and don't want to let out half-organized thoughts that might not reflect what it is I'm really feeling (like indyansel talked about). Of course none of us is trying to tell you what and how you should post, it was just a suggestion about how you might minimize the responses you were talking about.

Love you too.

[quasigeostrophy.livejournal.com]

Something I've been learning the hard way over the last couple of months is not to discuss my feelings/emotions while I'm still processing them. I've made some very hurtful statements that end up not even in the least reflecting how I really feel about the situation, but because I'm new at dealing with intense emotions, I can run through a whole gamut of feelings as a reaction before I settle on what clicks in my brain as my real feelings (and it ends up usually agreeing with what my logical side tells me makes sense). This has caused the wasted expense of a lot of energy. I've tried to set a subconscious "governor" on my mouth, and am working on actively thinking about engaging it, especially when I feel the rush accompanied by an intense emotional reaction. I'm not perfect yet (far from it), but I'm improving. I think the idea of making totally private LJ posts as an outlet in your case is a great idea. Maybe you don't even have to do it on LJ for fear of mis-marking a post and having others read it. Keep a password-protected text document somewhere. Use a paper journal. Whatever...

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Oh, can I ever sympathize with that! Both WRT expression-while-processing (which can lead to slightly-inconsistent reactions as processing continues) and massive energy expenditures.

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I had stuff like this too a while back: I'd post something and get a whole bunch of comments seeming to assume that my mood was permanent or much more serious than it really was. I tried to include disclaimers and write slightly differently: instead of saying "I hate myself" I will now say "I'm having one of those I-hate-myself days." At least the comments are different now.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

I noticed some of those, and was concerned... thanks for the tip, that's a useful way of phrasing the same underlying information.

[serenejournal.livejournal.com]

I don't think that's a bad idea. Still, I hope you got something good out of the threads. *hugs* are offered if you want them.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

*hug* gratefully accepted :-).

[serenejournal.livejournal.com]

*smile*

*hugs*

[treacle-well.livejournal.com]

I think I should begin disabling comments when I'm venting at myself...

Maybe if you specified something like "I'm venting at myself and will probably rebound shortly" the nature of the comments would as a result, be of a different, less stressed and stressful sort.

But, if you'd really rather that people didn't comment at all (except by private email), then yeah, disabling comments on those entries would be a good option.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

It's a tough tradeoff... I think that I need some kind of warning flag.

[kitchenwitch.livejournal.com]

I think:

a) Private entries are silly. What's the point? If Livejournal wasn't actually meant to be a JOURNAL, it'd be nothing but people posting the latest amusing Flash animation about George W. Bush. There's a reason that you're using LJ instead of a paper journal or a word processing program - you want your thoughts to be public, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. From my own perspective, having stuff public keeps me honest with myself because it's not just ME I'm saying stuff to anymore.

b) People need to cut you some slack. If you want to vent in your journal, do it. They may not use their journal like a journal, but that's no reason to not let you do it or be judgemental about it. Not to mention, EVERYONE has those moments of self-doubt or self-hatred or hatred of their lives, and they're lying if they say they don't. Just because they don't make entries about it, it doesn't mean they don't have those thoughts so it's unfair to attack you for them,

c) I see no-comments-allowed angsty entries as much more serious than ones where commenting is allowed. It kind of says, "This is how I feel and you can't talk me out of it. Leave me alone."

[nolly.livejournal.com]

Private entries let you have the processing benefits of writing out your thoughts, even when they aren't appropriate for public consumption. Just like a traditional journal. Using LJ rather than a paper journal or a random file on your hard drive makes it easier to look back over your own writings and see your thoughts in context.

I don't think anyone is attacking Brian for having low times or for posting about them. In fact, I don't think anyone is attacking Brian at all, at least that I've seen. I do see people suggesting that shared words have consequences that should be considered, and that one way to reduce some of these consequences is to not share words that will hurt others. Another option, with would reduce but not eliminate the consequences is to use a disclaimer, something like "This is only what I feel in the moment, because I"m depressed/upset, but I'll get over it soon."

I do think disabling comments when speaking publically is likely to make the ripples worse, not better. It removes the ability for others to easily ask for clarification.

[kitchenwitch.livejournal.com]

Private entries let you have the processing benefits of writing out your thoughts, even when they aren't appropriate for public consumption.

I understand what they're for - I just don't think that they make much sense in this context for myself, anyway, and I'm sure other people feel the same way. I don't think that someone should have to hide their internal thoughts if they don't want to, and I think that people should realize that not everyone uses a Livejournal the same way they themselves might.

I do see people suggesting that shared words have consequences that should be considered, and that one way to reduce some of these consequences is to not share words that will hurt others

So, basically, the option for someone who doesn't want to make private entries is to just bottle things up? If someone wants to say something in their journal, they should go right ahead and do it, and others should lighten up a little and let that person vent how they want to.

Another option, with would reduce but not eliminate the consequences is to use a disclaimer, something like "This is only what I feel in the moment, because I"m depressed/upset, but I'll get over it soon."

I don't think someone should have to use disclaimers in their own journal - or anywhere, for that matter. Doesn't anyone ever give the benefit of the doubt anymore?

[trinker.livejournal.com]

Sure. Freedom of speech. Blah blah blah.

If someone chooses to vent in person, there are consequences. If someone chooses to vent in an entry visible to others in LJ, there are also consequences. "I'm venting" is not a get out of consequences free card.

[kitchenwitch.livejournal.com]

Not "freedom of speech" - freedom to use one own's space as one's own space. The rules would be different in a community journal.

This doesn't mean there aren't consequences, of course, but I think that people need to take journal entries that they're reading with a grain of salt. It's a journal - you might end up seeing some raw, angry, sad, depressing, disgusting, angering, whatever stuff occasionally. It only makes someone more apt to keep their feelings locked up inside when the times they DO say something it's interpreted to a ridiculously out-there extreme.

I thought "venting" implied an unleashing of opinion that simply needs to be let out, not necessarily acted upon, lest one's top gets blown? When someone vents about their annoying coworker, I'm not about to step in and say, "I'm sure that if your co-worker read that they'd be hurt. You have anger management issues" because that's not what venting is about. Sometimes you just gotta let out something inconsequential that needs to be articulated before you can move on.

[trinker.livejournal.com]

If you say, in the presence of your partners, something hurtful under the tag "venting", and keep them from being able to say anything in response...

I don't get why that's a good thing.

[nolly.livejournal.com]

Publically viewable writing cannot be considered equivalent to private writings, such as traditional journal entries.

Venting needs to be clearly labeled as such, particularly in public space. If I posted "I hate my sister[1]! I'm going to kill her!" in a public entry, and someone was bored and found my journal by hitting the random link, how could they tell whether I was just venting? Suppose I went on to post detailed plans for how to accomplish this -- stress release or a danger to my sister? Suppose I was writing about a prominent politician instead of my sister? Venting or treason?

[1] I do not, in fact, have a sister.

[kitchenwitch.livejournal.com]

Publicly viewable journals are both a public forum and a private space. While anyone can read and respond, you're still the king of the hill in your own journal. It is your space. If anyone dared suggest to me that I keep whatever ranting I do out of my journal until I have it all thought out, I'd give them a big ol' "Good day, sir!" (with much stronger language, of course).

As far as your example goes... first of all, I think that if you're stupid and/or misguided enough to say that you're "going to kill someone", you should be in therapy in addition to using a journal to get your feelings out. Second, we're not talking about strangers here - we're talking about very-close-people who SHOULD at the very least know their person-they're-close-to enough to realize that (s)he's just venting or having a bad minute/hour/day. Besides, I didn't see Brian say anything about how he hated his life and regretted every single aspect of it or anything even remotely something I, personally, would consider as hurtful or dangerous as was being interpreted. Hypersensitivity abounds, evidently. And last, but not least, regardless of where you're reading or what you're reading, you should read it with an open mind and give the writer the benefit of the doubt. I find it horrifying that someone's close friends, at the very least, would do otherwise.

In summary, your journal is a public space, but it is still YOURS. You're allowed to post what you want (and at least here, within the guidelines of the Terms of Service) and you don't have to put a disclaimer on anything if you don't want to, nor should you be expected to. Yes, you should deal with the consequences of the things you say, regardless where or how it was said, but people should recognize that everyone treats their journal differently AND that it's not always the worst case scenario when someone posts something touching a negative subject. Sometimes people need to vent, period, and it means nothing more than they need to vent, and it shouldn't be taken personally (and even if it is, maybe a better way to approach it is, "Is something wrong?" and not "I can't believe you said that!!!").

[nolly.livejournal.com]

No one is saying people can or can't say anything. No one is saying people must or must not do anything.

Most of us are suggesting that if Brian (or anyone else) would like to minimize or avoid the sort of negative consequences that post evoked, he should consider using private entries and/or explicit disclaimers.

[geekchick]

Besides, I didn't see Brian say anything about how he hated his life and regretted every single aspect of it or anything even remotely something I, personally, would consider as hurtful or dangerous as was being interpreted. Hypersensitivity abounds, evidently.

One should also keep in mind that reactions might be influenced by context and background information which may not be readily apparent to others. It may look like hypersensitivity without that context, sure, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it is.

[patgreene.livejournal.com]

What she said. In spades.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

This is an interesting tradeoff between ideals (freedom of speech, one's own virtual space, stifling expression, etc.) and practical matters of informed consent (readers not expecting this kind of emotionally-laden stuff to appear in their friends-list) or unpleasant side-effects (inadvertently pushing partners' buttons).

I'm a slow, 5wpm, single-fingered hunt-and-peck typist. Both today's and Monday's longer entries each took between 30-40 minutes to write. Because of this, I won't/haven't done private entries... if it isn't worth making semi-public, it isn't worth the effort of typing it just for myself. Longhand hardcopy vents are a possibility.

But I don't want to drag the unwilling through future emotional storms... I think I'll post a notice of an opt-in [vent, friends-only] filter just as several of the people on my friends-list have used. Then anyone that chooses to opt-in have consented to seeing that kind of entry, others are blissfully unaware, and I can keep expressing my feelings in my journal in a timely fashion.

[trinker.livejournal.com]

If you haven't already composed the message for the opt-in, I'd suggest that you detail what sorts of response are okay, if that's important to you.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the suggestion :-).

[nolly.livejournal.com]

People should be clear about how they are using their Livejournal, which is the role of a disclaimer. With the exception of private entries, this is a public or semi-public (when posts are filtered) shared space and must be treated as one.

If you choose to display your inner thoughts in public, you have to take responsibility for the results of that choice.

Filters and private entries are tools to be used as appropriate.