From my organizer page...

[jay]

"A first failure may prepare the way for future success." --Arnold Lobel

I know this to be true in science, and to some extent in engineering and business. I wonder how applicable it is in relationships, though... I've read some accounts that if one isn't successful in making a connection (of whatever sort) initially, the likelihood of future success falls off dramatically. Or does it?

Comments

[serenejournal.livejournal.com]

Do you mean with the same person, or with subsequent attempts with other people? Either way, I have no idea, but now I wonder, and I'll be interested to see others' comments.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

I meant with the same person... if one makes a bad first impression, or courts awkwardly, is it usually a lost cause? Once you're relegated to "just friends", is it permanent? Or does learning from one's mistakes, learning more about the subject area (in this case, some other person) and perseverance and patience make the same difference that they do in other realms of life?

Presumably, experience might help with subsequent attempts with others -- but relationship possibilities are a rarity in life, so I wouldn't think that there's as much opportunity to put that experience to use with others.

[serenejournal.livejournal.com]

Well, relationship possibilities don't seem to be a huge rarity in life, but I see what you mean now.

Hm.

I've gotta ponder this one for a while. I think it's possible that I put people in the "just friends" box in my head, but am amenable to that changing if their behavior toward me changes.

Pondering.

[curiousangel.livejournal.com]

I think it depends on what context you're viewing the connection. Does it lead to a higher probability of eventually connecting with that person? I don't know, but I'd say probably not. If you look back on the experience and draw the correct lessons from it, though, then you might be more successful in later attempts to connect with others.

Drawing the "correct lesson" is fraught with difficulty, and it's hard to get accurate feedback about exactly what went wrong sometimes. It's also tough to set up comparable (and reproducible) conditions, so you may have to settle for some rough generalizations, and just wing it in the future.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

a higher probability of eventually connecting with that person? I don't know, but I'd say probably not.

Then the thesis statement wouldn't hold true in relationships. A bit depressing.

it's hard to get accurate feedback about exactly what went wrong sometimes

Unlike in science -- a failed experiment or crashed experimental plane is usually traceable with enough analysis. So extracting lessons-learned would be hard, too. Also depressing. Hmmm.

[curiousangel.livejournal.com]

The thesis statement says "may prepare for future success", not "must prepare", so I don't know that I'd say it's totally disproved. You're getting into optimist/pessimist/realist territory there, and defining the difference between them can be difficult sometimes.

You infer conclusions based on whatever data you can come up with. You won't ever have all the data, nor will you ever be operating under perfect conditions. You do the best you can anyway. Sometimes, you will fail.

Based on what has gone on upthread, I'd say that "first failure" can have many different meanings. If it's simply a case of not really clicking with someone, then you may well be able to change it at some point in the future. If you've managed to seriously offend someone, it'll be much harder to overcome, although perhaps not impossible. If there are fundamental objections to your nature, then you may never be able to overcome them without making changes to yourself that you can't (or won't) make.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

True... "may prepare" is no guarantee of improved odds, later.

And sometimes one has to create a theory based upon what one knows to be incomplete (or worse, flawed) data... and just be willing to revise, or be willing to fail again or be publicly wrong -- without taking it personally. At least, that's how it seems to work in technical fields. How it works in relationships... I don't know, really.

Fundamental objections are non-starters... usually those come up relatively soon and people part ways without much loss or exposure. Just like I can quickly conclude that a given instrument or design won't satisfy experimental or project requirements. ("I need 20 digital I/O channels and five analog channels, not a board with ten each, or another disk-controller." "Anyone that gets close to me must be kid-tolerant, because I have three energetic boys.")

Wrong-footedness may be harder to correct, because it is based on less information. If the offense is large, one may never get a second data point -- a second chance with that person.

Not clicking at first... that's salient, at least for me. It takes me typically months to get to know someone well enough to begin to notice that I'm attracted to them -- and to trust them -- and by that time, the given person may have decided that I'm not interested in themselves, and gone on. No click, but timing might have made a difference. I lost a potential relationship that way, a couple of years ago.

[patgreene.livejournal.com]

Oh, I don't know. When I first met you at R's party, I thought you were a pale, skinny nerd. That worked out didn't it? :D

Just took me a little while not to be so damn superficial and recognize your many wonderful qualities. I'm glad that Y kept telling me what a neat person you were.

[And if you turn this into "Oh, you were right the first time, you shouldn't have married me", I will be extremely annoyed with you. So just don't. : D ]

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

So now I'm a pale, not-quite-as-skinny nerd, eh? But it has certainly worked out... first impressions were not definitive in that case. Nor were a few months of initial setbacks...

I think that I don't necessarily make good first impressions, but grow on people... and I'm freer and more relaxed online than in-person, where I often tense in social settings. Hence LDRs have worked for me. And people that are patient enough to stay around and recognize those wonderful qualities ;-).

[who-is-she.livejournal.com]

Hey... what's wrong with being pale.. anyway.
:)
hehehe

[trinker.livejournal.com]

I remember the first meeting with someone I'm madly in love with as "eh, yeah", and a pleasant conversation, but no thought to doing anything else. And apparently it was mutual.

Second meeting, years later, was much, much different.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

What changed? Did either of you consciously leverage anything that you'd learned from the first meeting?

[trinker.livejournal.com]

I think we were different people. Or at least, I was. Drastically.

I wasn't *trying* to do anything with this person. (I don't think this person was trying to do anything with me, either.)

Generally, I would say that the difference was in my attitude towards life, and how I felt about myself.

[who-is-she.livejournal.com]

from my personal expereince:

1) a person can be filed for YEARS as "friend only" and can later become a love and a spouse
2) one can have horrendously unsuccessful relationships when they're younger, and really learn and grow from that, and make much better choices in the future. (one can also NOT grow, and make the same mistakes over and over...)
3) for me, first connections are rarely the deciding factor. THere is so much more of depth to learn about someone.. if you are actually going to try to relate to them deeply.
4) awkwardness in the initial stages of a relationsihp does not have to doom the union. What matters is how both parties react to the awkwardness. Withdrawal? Snide comments? Laughter? Giggling? Tears? Request for a "Do-over"? how we deal with our apparent failures does count.
5) I've learned tons from my mistakes. While they hurt like hell at the time, they also primed me to make better choices.

[p3aches.livejournal.com]

what she said. Hugs t