Ah. But my needs are my responsibility, therefore still in my hands... both sets are. No one else can be relied-on to help me in any meaningful way, but I can help others.
No one else can be relied-on to help me in any meaningful way, but I can help others.
Is one meant to infer from this statements that in this context a) nobody can be relied-on? b) that no person can rely on another? c) only you can be relied-on?
If the first two cases, why do you put so much effort into trying to be reliable in a way that you believe nobody is? And why not channel more of that effort into being reliable for fulfilling your own wants and needs rather than on others'?
In the third case - why would others see in you a reliability that is not present in anyone else?
There's some really ugly assumptions that I see in any of those cases. Not a world-view that I would care to share - but if it's working for you... is it working for you?
Hm... I'm not quite communicating, here, it seems. The emphasis is different -- I'm not generalizing, I'm saying how I feel. Which is that (reinforced over time)
No one else can be relied-on to help me in any meaningful way
Others may be reliable and helpful in their own ways, or with other people. But I feel like I cannot rely upon anyone else if I get in trouble, personally. Compare the example of others helping kineticphoenix over the past two months -- that was lovely. Clearly, her extended family could be relied-upon to help her when she was in a bad situation. But there is no one or group that I have ever felt would do likewise for me, as an individual.
But that lack of reciprocity doesn't prevent me from trying to help others...
I find myself wondering just how much data of people helping has been disregarded because it didn't fit your hypothesis, and how many people who would have helped you out did not because they didn't know you wanted or needed help (because they failed to poll and you weren't willing to interrupt, to use karenbynight's brilliant analogy). I don't think you can claim unbiased data or analysis here.
When I ask directly, it is usually out of desperation, and therefore I'm often asking for something large or difficult. Like asking my parents for an unofficial loan to help me make a down payment on this house, when the initial financing fell through. They had the resources... but didn't want to tap their retirement savings, even temporarily. I eventually found another way to finance it, at a one percent higher interest rate. Likewise, in smaller things... like rides to/from auto repair shops, say, unless it is directly on the other person's travel route. Or someone with lots of bike-repair experience being always too busy to help me repair mine.
My experience has been that I'd better never get seriously sick, need a short-term loan or ask for anything more personally demanding than picking up my laundry from the dry-cleaners...
Cumulative over 20 years with family, friends and colleagues. But very little from current associates, granted. The bike example was from someone on my LJ list... a couple of people have not been able to give rides. That's the extent of it with this group, other than asking for more social inclusion at times.
I'm reading this as "when I ask, if I get a negative response, I assume I should never ask again."
For me, asking is just that- a request. Not a requirement. Sometimes, the answer is no. Sometimes, when I'm asked, the answer is no. I expect that- I expect my friends to take care of themselves first, or honor other commitments. Them saying no, especially on things like needing a ride, or fixing a bike, is ok.
I can see situations where an unsupported no, from certain people, to specifically critical requests could be a problem. But thise are going to be far, few between, and generally involve pre-negotiated relationships.
That makes sense. And most of my requests come about with either designated-role strangers (airline agents, say) or in relationships, and are as few as I can manage, historically. I have a problem adjusting to asking friends... no is always acceptable. Even expected, actually ;-).
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jay
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no subject
Date: 2004-04-18 08:35 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-04-18 08:04 pm (UTC)Is one meant to infer from this statements that in this context a) nobody can be relied-on? b) that no person can rely on another? c) only you can be relied-on?
If the first two cases, why do you put so much effort into trying to be reliable in a way that you believe nobody is? And why not channel more of that effort into being reliable for fulfilling your own wants and needs rather than on others'?
In the third case - why would others see in you a reliability that is not present in anyone else?
There's some really ugly assumptions that I see in any of those cases. Not a world-view that I would care to share - but if it's working for you... is it working for you?
no subject
Date: 2004-04-18 09:31 pm (UTC)No one else can be relied-on to help me in any meaningful way
Others may be reliable and helpful in their own ways, or with other people. But I feel like I cannot rely upon anyone else if I get in trouble, personally. Compare the example of others helping
But that lack of reciprocity doesn't prevent me from trying to help others...
no subject
Date: 2004-04-21 08:32 am (UTC)I find myself wondering just how much data of people helping has been disregarded because it didn't fit your hypothesis, and how many people who would have helped you out did not because they didn't know you wanted or needed help (because they failed to poll and you weren't willing to interrupt, to use
no subject
Date: 2004-04-24 11:29 pm (UTC)My experience has been that I'd better never get seriously sick, need a short-term loan or ask for anything more personally demanding than picking up my laundry from the dry-cleaners...
no subject
Date: 2004-04-24 11:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-04-25 12:50 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-04-27 12:21 am (UTC)For me, asking is just that- a request. Not a requirement. Sometimes, the answer is no. Sometimes, when I'm asked, the answer is no. I expect that- I expect my friends to take care of themselves first, or honor other commitments. Them saying no, especially on things like needing a ride, or fixing a bike, is ok.
I can see situations where an unsupported no, from certain people, to specifically critical requests could be a problem. But thise are going to be far, few between, and generally involve pre-negotiated relationships.
no subject
Date: 2004-05-01 06:45 am (UTC)