easier, in some ways

[jay]

As the nominal "holiday" season moves into its more-intense mode... not just shopping and secular consumerism, but various spiritual or philosophical observances... in some ways, being on the road is easier than being at home, in that I'm not caught in-between the social and spiritual. Good friends are hosting pagan events... Yule or Solstice... today and next Tuesday. Many of my local SF-area friends are likely to be at one or both of these... if I were home they'd be unlikely to accompany me to a Christmas service, so I'd feel funny about joining their observances likewise as a non-participant guest. Even certain local parties with pagan overtones leave me feeling a bit uneasy at times, and I generally miss those that are tied to specific dates or observances. Meanwhile, even at our home church (St. Timothy's Episcopal, in Mountain View) I'm viewed there as an outsider, somewhat suspect because of my other relationships (and not allowed to serve in volunteer roles).

Last year, we stayed in CA and it felt a bit divisive or isolating around this time, for me. This year, that isn't an option... more a matter of deciding which local church to attend as visitors on Christmas. Easier, if still rather disconnected from friends and community.

Comments

[tenacious-snail.livejournal.com]

...and I am noticing that I have no Christmas-related plans, and that while there is lots of socializing with friends, I miss family. (so am fixing that by making plans for New Orleans and Houston with Mom, but more on that one later).

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Last year I skipped the solstice-related socializing with friends *and* missed seeing blood relatives... at least this year, the latter exists for me. Although I'll miss inviting you over for Christmas dinner... (hugs).

[inflectionpoint.livejournal.com]

Interesting. I'd be curious to hear more about your feelings at pagan gatherings, and how you handle those.

I'm assuming that this comes from your being a practicing monotheist, but admit that I don't know the source of the feelings for you.

I suffer from perhaps an opposite problem - for a long time, the idea of setting foot into a catholic church was something I did not want to consider, and is still a big Somewhat Scary thing for me to do. It means missing out on a lot of very meaningful music and being far away from people who do some really good ritual, but it's not my place anymore and I have feelings of pain around that. There is something very special about a place that is made and built and maintained for ritual and for community. It's powerful.

I'm not sure I qualify as a pagan per se, I tend to be a person who prefers to avoid theologies attached to my mystical practices, because I am still running very very scared from dogmatism even years after walking away from catholicism. That said, I do feel a sadness that the established ritual spaces I'm aware of tend to not be pagan. I'd like to see more established ritual spaces for all different kinds of people.

Of course, one of my consolation prizes is that I've gotten a better awareness of being able to worship anywhere under the sun. But christians can do that too!

I find it interesting getting to know you, and to learn about how you think and believe. Thank you for being so open!

[datagoddess.livejournal.com]

There are times when we go down to Louisville we end up going to my Bro and SIL's church, which is Catholic (Bro is still technically Lutheran, but SIL and the kids are Catholic). I feel uncomfortable in there, and in the last few years we haven't gone (and it hasn't been a problem), but it still feels weird.

I'd probably feel the same at a pagan event, except I'd be somewhat intrigued just because I haven't been to a pagan event before.

[p3aches.livejournal.com]

If I were staying in town id go to a christmas service with you.

[deedeebythebay.livejournal.com]

I think if you were here and you were to invite us to attend a service with you and our schedule were open we'd seriously consider it. I don't think of myself specifically as "Pagan" but as "Christo-Pagan", incoroporating more honor of nature and old ways into my still quiet but deep devotion to the sacrifice and life-led-as-example that Jesus provided.

As it is, we are hoping to attend midnight Mass at a Catholic or Episcopal church this year.

[cyan-blue.livejournal.com]

I like going to gatherings of other religious groups every now and then - they are interesting to me, and give new perspectives. And sometimes I actively enjoy them - I really get a lot out of going to Quaker Meeting and Buddhist Sitting, for example, even though I don't consider myself to be one of those groups.

If it were important to you that I came to one of your church's services, to better understand you, I'd do it. I went to a church service with a friend during Xmas of '99 because she was visiting and wanted to hear good High Mass music, and it was nice.

If you don't want to come to our households' various observances, we certainly won't push you to - but you're always welcome to come and be a part of the friendly atmosphere (which is mostly similar to W&S), and either stand silently or be out of the room when the brief religious parts happen. As it is, we have 3 different religious themes going in the household at the moment - the living room has my menorahs and dreidls up next to my housemates' Xmas and Solstice ornaments.

[cyan-blue.livejournal.com]

I wrote,

but you're always welcome to come and be a part of the friendly atmosphere (which is mostly similar to W&S), and either stand silently or be out of the room when the brief religious parts happen.

You're welcome to participate in the rituals too, of course! But the others are options as well, if they are more comfortable options for you.

[elissaann.livejournal.com]

Meanwhile, even at our home church (St. Timothy's Episcopal, in Mountain View) I'm viewed there as an outsider, somewhat suspect because of my other relationships (and not allowed to serve in volunteer roles).

Why aren't you allowed to serve in volunteer roles? That seems odd.

[coyote3502.livejournal.com]

In the mind of many Christian leaders (pastors, priests, etc.) there's a certain "moral code" which is to upheld by church members. That moral code excludes multiple relationships.

[hot-turkey.livejournal.com]

My high school was a prep school run by the Episcopal Church. After a little while there, I came to see the priests as basically politicians -- what they were doing did not strike me as particularly "spiritual" at all. I consider that exposure to the day-to-day reality of the church to be the main factor in my turning away from Christianity. I went in a Christian, came out an agnostic with Buddhist leanings.

[trinker.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry your church experience has become so distancing for you.

That said, I've enjoyed Catholic Christmas mass in the past, despite it not being my tradition at all.

[elissaann.livejournal.com]

I would like to know whether Brian was told specifically that he is not allowed to volunteer, and who told him.

I would also be quite interested in seeing the rules and regulations of the Episcopal Church which require such a thing.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Yes, told so by the rector (chief priest) of the parish. Granted, it is a relatively conservative parish... see http://www.livejournal.com/users/brian1789/228326.html for background. I am not allowed to stand as a candidate for any parish body, or teach... if I protest, the rector will respond by writing a letter to have me made not-in-good-standing.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Thanks... I enjoy the ritual aspects, this time of year.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

There are often several possible interpretations possible of a given scriptural passage, or passages that could be construed as overriding another. In those cases, the choice of interpretations used often is driven only by the preference of the priest... which may take parish politics into account, especially not offending large contributors.

[elissaann.livejournal.com]

Sheesh. I'm disgusted by the hypocrisy of your rector. I suspect that every single person in the parish (except newly-born babies) does unbiblical things every single day. Eating pork and cheeseburgers, for example.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

My parish has openly gay members, who serve in leadership positions, but poly is considered too controversial.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

(nods) If they're going to adhere to Levitical prohibitions, IMO they should go, um, whole-hog instead of selectively choosing. There is lots of biblical polygamy, and ironically it is tolerated in Anglican congregations in African countries (who conversely won't tolerate LGBT members).

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

BTW... this rector is leaving our parish in a month, moving to a church in northern Virginia.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

My rule in other-faith ceremonies or services is to be respectful, stand and observe politely, and participate to the extent that (a) I'm invited, (b) think I know what I'm doing, and (c) the action doesn't directly conflict with my own beliefs. Ritual cleaning and tossing a coin and ringing a gong at a Japanese temple, or standing/bowing and covering my head at a Shabbat service are fine... but at a recent friends' party with a table of food that was designated as an offering to a given Roman deity, I instead quietly contributed soft drinks (which were kept elsewhere, in the kitchen).

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Having multiple ornaments up in a diverse household seems appropriate... and I also enjoy occasional visits to the services of other groups, as I learn and increase my understanding of them (and often recognize commonalities :). I'm a bit wary of inviting friends and sweeties to mine, out of a concern that I'd appear to be prosletyzing.

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Hm. That's a bit unexpected to me, and I'll make note of it. I'd probably be slow to invite anyone -- not because I wouldn't want your company, but rather because I'm concerned about seeming to prosletyze (which IMO is impolite among friends).

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Thanks! (smile)

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

It's stretching to go into a strange spiritual environment... sometimes uncomfortable, agreed.