Notches vs. casual partners

[jay]

In earlier journal discussions, some argument has occurred around the use of the term "notch" as denoting a lack of significance as a partner. To me, "notch" equals someone pursued solely based on desire, with no intention of further contact or a relationship afterward. With slightly-predatory overtones... leaving afterward with only a fond memory (hopefully) to take forward into the future.

But, again, having never done anything like that myself, one can probably safely ignore my opinions as uninformed ;-). So here's a poll to see how other folks define the term:

[Poll #55900]

I don't intend to get on a high-horse here, I'm not criticizing those who have casual sex or notches or whatever in their own past. I claim no virtue... no one has ever made that kind of advance towards me, and no one was interested in that way early on in my 20s when I was young and attractive. Were circumstances different.... who knows what I would have done. So no judgments, either way, I want to know what you really think...

Comments

Notches

[hopeforyou.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I can answer the poll as written, mostly because I myself am not sure of the definition of "notch" or even whether or not it differs from casual sex. What exactly is "casual sex" anyway? I've come to wonder after a while, especially when mikz has mentioned that long-term casual relatioships can and do exist.

If the concept of "notch" is the equivalent of "putting a notch in one's belt" or "sport fucking", then I'd have to say the main objective is to cross someone off one's list of "people to do" for a variety of reasons.

One reason may be having sex with someone because they are popular or rare, and esteemed or seen to have some special value just as those rare cards in a "Magick: The Gathering" deck. Another reason may be for the person putting in another notch to feel better about themself and feed their ego -- perhaps the fact that someone had sex with them or more people had sex with them makes them feel more valuable somehow.

No judgment there, just observation that the reason may be external validation and not out of lack of care for the other person as has been implied in objectification and predation -- that may or may not be present. Maybe even both partners are engaged in putting a notch in their own individual belts for similar reasons, which may include validation of worth, loneliness, friendship, recreation, lust, substance use/lowering of inhibitions, and beliefs.

But those are only some reasons...I do not think they are all, and "other" may very often apply along with those you list. I occasionally go to play parties, for example, because I am looking to learn some new technique. I'm a sex geek, and I observe such things for my education. That would fall under "other". I also go for social purposes, because other friends go to such parties and I meet them there. That would fall under friendship and recreation combined.

Re: Notches

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

Hm.... I tend to think of casual sex as being sex between strangers, with no a priori intention of becoming otherwise. The sort of thing that might happen with a businessperson picked up in a bar for one night, in a swing club or dungeon, or at the larger sort of "those kinds of parties"...

If my casual sex definition is close to others' "anonymous sex", then my "notch" is closer to "collect the desirable stranger/acquaintance"...

And ego issues cover a broader swathe... shucks, I don't pursue that kind of sport, so to speak, but I still feel more valuable (and amazed ;-) when someone wants to be sexual with me.

And data gathering and new techniques are useful and worthwhile, granted...

Notches vs. Casual Sex

[hopeforyou.livejournal.com]

I think that collecting notches in one's belt may be a subset of casual sex, but they are not equivalents.

I could (this is an example, not my reality) collect a notch by having sex with, say, joedecker if everyone wants joe and knows of his reputation at embracing the power of "and" -- and my *sole* or *primary* motivation to have sex with joe is because of that.

If, however, I want to be his friend, get to know him better, learn some sexual techniques, and not necessarily form a long-term committed relationship with him -- then the relationship is more casual, but it's more than just putting a notch in my belt. Maybe we are friends-with-privileges, or maybe we are just getting together for this one night to engage in sexual activity with each other.

I may hook up with joe sexually for just one night, but no-one knows my intentions other than me, and probably joe. And some folks are more verbal and open about their intentions than others. Since I'm involved with folks who promote direct communication and geek flirting, I generally know upfront whether they want casual involvement, want to adopt a wait-and-see attitude, or are only looking for a Relationship with a capital "C". But to the outside observer, it may not be clear whether or not I am putting a notch in my belt with joe that night or that there's more to it.

Re: Notches vs. Casual Sex

[brian1789.livejournal.com]

From a motivational standpoint... what I meant by "notch" is much closer to your first example. I don't regard sex between persons in an ongoing friendship as a notch for either, even if it is a one-time occurrence. The notch concept is much more closely tied in my head with thoughts of "collect the matched set" or "scoring"...

[griffen.livejournal.com]

I've never thought of anyone as a notch, so I find I can't answer your poll.

And 'young and attractive'? Sorry, hon, I've seen you in person -- recently -- and you qualify as both in my book. So there. I thought you were about 30. 34 at the absolute outside, and that was only because of your oldest son's age.

Browsing through

[mizcrank.livejournal.com]

BTW, check out mountain_view!

[kiya]

I've only ever encountered one person who did what I'd term looking for notches. I don't know that I would imagine that any of your categories would describe her; I got the impression that she didn't believe in successful long-term relationships (she certainly seemed to resent those people who had them, and tried to disrupt them). And given that she apparently didn't believe in such, 'success' was 'number of ex-lovers'.

I've encountered a number of people who have had varyingly casual sex, though. Just not that many who were keeping score. It baffles me sometimes that I know people who don't know how many partners they've had, but I figure it just underscores that they're not keeping score anyhow. It's just a different way of going at things, to which I say, "No biggie."

I honestly don't understand measuring adequacy by totting up the genitalia either. My ex-lovers aren't here now. The things they've taught me are; the damage they did to me is. They aren't, so I can't imagine why it matters whether there was one of them or ten of them or whether I just came this way out of the box. Relationships are, to me, a here and now thing, and comparing oneself to someone who isn't there anymore seems confounding to me.

I'm a bad person to ask about this sort of thing though; it's not in my natural mental patterns to contemplate, so I just sort of hypothesise when I get diverted into a channel where I might think of such things. So I really think that this is something I really don't think about, but when I do, I'm confused.

[submarine-bells.livejournal.com]

YMMV, but I'd suggest that use of the term "notch" to describe sexual encounters could be seen as being inherently judgemental, at least in most situations that I've come across it. I guess that except in very limited circumstances where someone's describing an encounter of their own in a very tongue-in-cheek sort of way, "notch" is a term that tends to get used in a similar way to words like "slut" - only ever about someone else, and generally implying disapproval of their sexual choices or motivations.

I honestly can't think of anyone in my experience who has described their own sexual encounters as "notches", except maybe either in a very tongue-in-cheek sort of way or as a way of "devaluing" a past encounter that they have had cause to regret. And if that's how "notch" is generally used, then asking folk about the motivations behind "notch" encounters is in effect asking them to figure out the motivations of others. How much sense does it make to assume one knows others' sexual motivations without actually asking them? All you can do is guess, right?

Surely it would make more sense to ask folk to recount their own motivations for undertaking sexual encounters, without using such loaded language as "notch". I think that if you did that, you might get a bunch of much more interesting data. If you want to find out more about other folks' motivations for casual sex (however they may define it), that could be a much more useful way of doing so, I think.

Re: Notches vs. casual partners

[pir-anha.livejournal.com]

i can't answer your poll as written because it asks me to speculate on the motivations of third parties i don't even know. i can, however, add my datapoint on what a "notch" means in my dictionary.

To me, "notch" equals someone pursued solely based on desire, with no intention of further contact or a relationship afterward.

to me it's much more specific than that -- the person making notches for each person zie "fucks for sport" doesn't care about anything other than "doing" a set of people -- those partners feelings don't enter into it. the reasons for that can be varied -- contrary to teal i have actually met such people and have asked, so this is from the horses' mouths. i've seen it be competitive, i've seen it be really screwed up lack of belief in anything better, i've seen it be validation of self. there are probably more reasons.

if i saw somebody use "notch" about somebody else's sexual behaviour i'd consider that to be inherently judgmental; it's not a complimentary term in my book. and i wouldn't use it unless i strongly disapproved of what somebody was doing; ie. having sex under false pretenses, and i _knew_ that this was happening.

"casual partner" doesn't have any such negative connotations for me. it just means that there are no particular strings attached to the sexual relationship. it doesn't have the same undertone of the partner being a mere conquest, an object to use and then leave behind, somebody about whose feelings one doesn't give a damn. there is IMO not a thing wrong with casual sex -- i don't do it because i don't care enough for sex, otherwise i'd possibly engage in it too if i met somebody with whom that seemed to be a good form of relationship (short or long, i don't think all casual relationships are automatically short-term).

-piranha

Ok...

[greeklady.livejournal.com]

So like everyone is being terribly pc. I am sorry, going to call a spade a spade and be the evil man out...er woman out.

I had a "non committed sexual encounter" with someone and damned if as soon as he got me into bed, I was never called again. I definately felt like the "notch". I almost thought,... hey I am a bad lover. Which of course is untrue. Since said person was making noises as to seeing me again. But in the mean time was fucking everyone from here to the other coast.

I have no fond memories, I do feel used by this. Mike says I should act like it is a notch in my belt but I just can't feel that way. I don't want to have a check list of people. Oh and yes, there are people like that whether they want to admit it or not... they make it sound all new agey and lovey dovey... but you know what... it really translates to ... how many people can I lay before I die. It just has soft edges to it and a nice rosey glow.

[lizw.livejournal.com]

In a sexual context, I've only ever encountered the word as part of the phrase "notch on a bedpost", usually in a sentence along the lines of "X is just collecting notches on zir bedpost" or "X was just thinking of Y as a notch on zir bedpost". I have always interpreted it as meaning that X wants to have sex with as many people as possible and is keeping a running score, not as meaning that Y is on some list of particularly desirable people that X and others are competing for; anything involving competition strikes me as being in a different category. I don't recall that I ever agreed with the speaker's assessment, either; I think I'd have to be told by X zirself before I'd assume it was correct.

Notches.

[p3aches.livejournal.com]

Brian ,
Your words were " no one has ever made that kind of advance towards me, and no one was interested in that way early on in my 20s when I was young and attractive."

Just what makes you think your not attractive now?
One of the things I find most attractive about you is your easy smile and the depth in your eyes when I look into them.

Big hugs T

[cjsmith.livejournal.com]

I think of "notch" as a derogatory term for one-time-only sex NOT motivated by desire or loneliness, but instead for the purposes of conquest and egoboost, motivated by the need for self-aggrandizement (in this case through sheer numbers). I was someone's notch once. Absolutely unmistakable, when it happens. I found it quite unpleasant.